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Range of the C-25 boats

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5371 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/08/2008 : 22:41:45

In two weeks I plan on making my first real 3+ day trip on Passage and using a technique similar to a "Predicted Log" that many powerboaters use, I'm trying to determine whether things will go as planned for making time/distance, and that I will not be too wiped out at the end of the day to enjoy a dinner or a beverage.

I'd like to know how far members have sailed in an 8 hour period aboard their C-25s. 20 miles, 30 miles, 35 miles??

My trip should go like this....

Depart at 8:00am from Stratford CT. Make buoy G1 at the mouth of the Housatonic River at 8:45am. Heading east 9 nautical miles to buoy RH NH, outside New Haven harbor at 10:30am. I will be opposing a 0.6 kt current at that time.

Proceed to buoy G15 off Guilford CT, 11 nm, arriving at 13:15 - 13:30.

Ten miles more to Westbrook's Pilot's Point Marina at 16:00 hours.

This is a 33 mile trip, and I'm hoping I am not setting my sights too high.

Day 2 is much less demanding distance-wise - about 15 nm - and a good thing too. It will be in a very crowded area through a narrow channel (with a draw bridge) by the mouth of the Connecticut River.

Then up the CT river. Much of the way there is not any No-Wake zone, so I will be a rollin' quite a bit. Should be an interesting trip.

My previous longest trip was approx 18 miles in 5 hours. Of course, that was a day in which I could not make much headway because the wind was howling in northerly puffs.

I just want to be realistic and I need to roughly double my one-day distance while only taking half-again as much time.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3462 Posts

Response Posted - 06/09/2008 : 05:51:36

Bruce,

You probably will be okay for your neck of the woods. Believe from your explanation, after you negotiate the initial short river area, then you are pretty much free and clear to tack or whatever to get to your 1st destination. I think the key is to ensure you have backup plans in case the winds do not turn out favorable and you have to put in sooner to a marina or anchorage if bad weather. If calm, then you have enough gas to negotiate the remaining leg of your trip to your destination. If you had to motor the entire way in calm weather and made forward distance of about 4 knots, it would take you about 8 hrs. I guess what adds addl time to this estimate (for calm conditions) is at what point after being becalmed do you start the motor...so it could take longer than that.

In my area (Potomac River), I have a big unknown but sure to influence forward distance - I have to snake along the river and tacking along the way which is usually the case heading South. I have done roundtrip 25 mile daysails (that is about 12 or so miles South and then 12 miles North point to point) but that is only if winds favorable and not too much tacking...and there is always tacking on the River...and usually not just once in awhile. So...for me, if I was to sail the whole way...I probably would set my sights making 25 miles/day in one direction. Having said that, I know that the PO made his maiden voyage when he bought the boat from further up the Chesapeake River (St. Michaels). I would estimate the entire trip to our area in the North section of the Potomac River (Wash DC Area) is at least point to point ~ 120+ miles (must be 80 miles on the River alone) and he made it in 3 days ! But that was a one way ticket...and with the prevailing winds if constant would most likely have been in his favor since it usually takes longer to go down the Potomac than to come back up North. (Usually)

Edited by - OLarryR on 06/09/2008 06:02:15

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 06/09/2008 : 06:17:06

Scenario 1
5 nm per hour X 8 hours = 40 nm
(beam reach all the way, refreshed and happy)

Scenario 2
2 nm per hour X 8 hours X 0.7 tacking angle factor = 11 nm
(beating to windward, tired and damp)

I like Scenario 1.

Edited by - on

Even Chance
Captain

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USA
393 Posts

Response Posted - 06/09/2008 : 06:32:27

Bruce:

The farthest I've sailed in one day was about 60 miles, from Urbanna, VA, to Hampton, VA. I planned for that to be a two day trip, but the wind was blowing 20 - 25 kts out of the NW -- a broad reach under partially furled jib alone -- and I literally couldn't stop! I made the trip in about 12 hours.

The longest day on the boat, almost entirely under power, was about 75 miles, from Solomons, MD, to Nassawadox Creek, VA. That was a VERY long, hot, tedious trip.

The rule on our boat is that on a trip (as opposed to just daysailing), if we're making fewer than 3 knots under sail the motor is turned on. I don't plan a day's sail to be longer than 30 miles (8 hours at 4 knots) -- although sometimes, like the Hampton trip, I get surprised!

Edited by - Even Chance on 06/09/2008 06:44:22

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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2015 Posts

Response Posted - 06/09/2008 : 08:33:12

Agreed, 30 miles is a realistic expectation. I've gotten as much as 60 miles out of a day when wind/tidal flow was right, but figuring 30 miles means you'll reach your goal most of the time and have some down time as well(which I found myself in great need of after several days of cruising).

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 06/09/2008 : 09:13:12

30 miles is a long way on a sailboat. Saturday I sailed a 30 mile middle distance race from Solomon's Island, MD to the Little Choptank River, and back, on a 32 foot sailboat with racing sails and a full racing crew. We left at 9:00 am and crossed the finish line at midnight. That won't leave much time for a relaxing dinner, unless it's sandwiches and munchies on the boat. The first half was under spinnaker. Most small cruisers don't have enough crew to fly a spinnaker.

I frequently sail from my marina to Annapolis, which is about 25-30 miles, depending on my exact destination, on either a 28 or 35 foot sailboat, and most of time I have to motor sail to get there at a reasonable hour. The only exception is when the winds are just right, and that seems to be about 20% of the time.

Because you are dependent on the wind to drive the boat, you can't plan a long, tight schedule, as you can with a trip by car. There are too many variables. I like to plan a cruise loosely, with 2-3 different alternatives. I might start out for a preferred destination, but, when I see how the winds are treating me, I might decide to anchor in a cove along the way. If I really am determined to get to the preferred location, then I'll decide, early-on, to motor-sail, to get there at a desired time. Cruising under sail requires either that you have no limit on the amount of time you have to get there, or that you be flexible about your destination, or about your willingness to motor-sail to get there.

Edited by - on

millermg
Navigator

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159 Posts

Response Posted - 06/09/2008 : 09:22:02

There's a great trip-planning program called Chart Navigator, which is a free download off of the Maptech.com website. From there, you'll see the link to obtain free boating charts, which you can load into Chart Nav and plot your routes, along with anticipated speed for each leg, etc. It's great for figuring out your 'worst case scenarios'.

The longest slog in one day I've undertaken was the end of our family vacation last summer from Deception Pass (just east of the San Juan Islands) to our home in Olympia, almost exactly 100 miles. 19 hours straight motoring under calm or light headwinds. Never would have attempted this had we not planned it out first using the Chart Nav. (Of course you can do the same thing w/ a scale and a calculator, but that takes too much thinking for a vacation!)

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 06/09/2008 : 12:42:10

I've had a 75 mile day and many 65 mile days (single handed). Those are very long days. 12 to 15 hours underway. Downwind is much easier on you than upwind. Autopilot is mandatory.

Plan on making 5 knots, that is pretty easy to achieve.

30 miles a day would be very relaxing.

Two or three 65 mile days in a row is exhausting.

Always have the main up and motor sail as much as possible. Resist the temptation to crank the motor up until you get into the 6 knot range - it eats fuel.

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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1709 Posts

Response Posted - 06/09/2008 : 15:33:00

Bruce,

I've had one thirty miler on a 10 cruise but I motored most of it. Not fun without wind to keep things cooled down and the motor running all the time. Plan for thirty but also have an intermediate destination in case you don't make your goal and don't want to be out at night or the weather forces you into port.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 06/09/2008 : 15:46:15

Since it has yet to be said, don't let your schedule drive your decisions while underway. Conditions drive those decisions.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 06/09/2008 : 16:33:56

I'm planning on my cruise this summer to travel 150 miles from Santa Cruz Island all the way back to San Diego without stopping.

Could very well be a couple of days under sail single handed.

Trying a single handed passage like Moitessier, Knox-Johnson, Jones, Aebi, et al.

I will motor, but not while I am sleeping.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 06/09/2008 : 19:33:17

Jim... be sure and get one of those personal EPIRB's before you go.

Edited by - on

quilombo
Captain

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USA
301 Posts

Response Posted - 06/09/2008 : 20:41:27

I once did abuot a mile accross the river to the restaurant,
it was cool

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 06/09/2008 : 22:04:01

I side with the 4 kt. people. Make an easily achievable average and everybody will be happy. Arrive early and you can enjoy your destination; arrive late and be grumpy from pressure sailing or powering and then find the shops and restaurants closed

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 06/09/2008 : 22:22:02

Bruce: Passage did about 50 miles from Norwalk to Westbrook on my first day delivering her to her new home (actually her old home) in Mystic a few years ago... That was about 1/3 sailing and about 2/3 power, leaving late morning and arriving late afternoon.

The main issue I'll raise is that while you can compute the distances and speed, you can't predict the conditions. Don't be on a schedule where you can't delay a departure by a day or even two. If you really have to be home, consider the possibility of Amtrak out of Old Saybrook as a backup.

Also, when going to and returning from the CT River, be aware of the difference in currents inside and outside of Long Sand Shoal west of the river. If you're opposing the tide, go inside the shoal--if with the tide, go outside. (BTW, do you have the yellow Eldridge Tide and Pilot Book?)

Have fun--she's done it all before and will take very good care of you! (One of her trips from Mystic to Darien was in conditions you will hopefully never encounter!)

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 06/09/2008 22:27:26

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1776 Posts

Response Posted - 06/12/2008 : 21:36:06

Bruce: I have sailed both ways to and from Mystic from the Norwalk/Darien area on other (non Catalina) sail boats and echo what has been said above. Make sure you really understand the currents and look at Eldridge Tide & Pilot -- they are the best for explaining what could/does occur on Long Island Sound. The good news is that the prevailing winds on the sound are from the S/W for most of your journey. The bad news is that they are inconsistent and the currents can really gum up making good time. @30 kmiles/day seems safe -- 40 doable more lucky.

Edited by - on

crispi
Deckhand

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6 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2008 : 12:58:02

Bruce,

Hello from just across the fetch. I sail out of Branford and can tell you that you'll want to time the tide as much as possible.

I've made the trip from Branford to North Cove in Old Saybrook twice and it's taken me approximately 7 hours both times due to current and wind direction. One trip there was a NE wind and the next trip it was SE. It was on the nose coming home both times too, so uphill both ways. Sounds like a story my Grandfather used to tell me. =)

For reference, we've sailed from Block Island, RI to Shelter Island, NY(approximately 40 miles)on a beam reach in the same amount of time.

You may want to find a few good spots to drop the hook in advance, so you're not scrambling at the last minute.

If you happen to make it further on your first day, then you should grab a mooring at the North Cove Yacht Club for the night. You can stay for free for 72 hours and the launch(including use of the facilities is $20/day) http://ncyc.addr.com/ That will put you about 1/4 mile from Main Street in OS, which has plenty going on.

Bob
Silent Lady
Catalina 25 Std Rig/Fin Keel

Edited by - on

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2008 : 14:11:17

Posted by John Russell;
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> Since it has yet to be said, don't let your schedule drive your decisions while underway. Conditions drive those decisions. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

IMHO the most important thing said here.
Oh, - and that includes your condition as well.

Edited by - DaveR on 06/13/2008 14:12:59

dblitz
Navigator

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240 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2008 : 14:47:25

Did Mamaroneck, NY to Nyack, NY two summers ago. Motored the whole way, about 50 NM. The current north on the Hudson was against us; we decided to keep going. Made about .5 knots on the Hudson until the current started changing. Left 8:30 am and arrived 11:30 pm. I thought the engine was INSIDE my head. In the dark, the lights of the Tappan Zee camouflaged the lights on the barge coming straight for us. If you can't sail and you have the time, it's better to wait for the current or conditions to allow you to sail rather than pushing on against the current or the dark.
Also, I don't know about the rest of you, but after an extended amount of time spent on the boat, once you get back, terra does not feel so firma.

Edited by - on

Stardog
Captain

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USA
319 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2008 : 14:54:20

Lake Travis where I sail is about 70 miles long if you stretch it out into a straight line. When I sail to the far end, I generally do it in two days, arriving at the destination in the afternoon of the second day. So, with shifty winds and a fair amount of tacking and jibing, I'm making between 30 and 40 miles in a day. That range is about the right amount of sailing in a day for me, otherwise I end up very tired. The sailing I've done along the gulf coast is less strenuous and covering more water in a day is easier. I guess my point to you being that if you have to spend more time working your sails on this trip, you may not cover as much water as you want and you may end up pretty tired as well.

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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5371 Posts

Response Posted - 06/14/2008 : 11:14:12

I'd like to thank you all for your insightful and wonderful advice. After a chat with the Admiral, I plan on a 6am start on Thursday. Since it'll be 35 miles, not 30, I'll need the extra time.

An early indication of the weather forecast is cloudy and cool, w/ NE winds. That wind direction will be tough, since I'll be mostly tacking. Predicting a persistent upper level low. I hope the wind will be more northerly, or SE, but not due East, I would be sailing directly into the eye of the wind.

I appreciate John Russell's advice on decisionmaking: <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> don't let your schedule drive your decisions while underway. Conditions drive those decisions. . . <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> I've experienced the consequences of both, and prefer responding to conditions, even if unable to make my destination.

As mentioned above, I've created a "methodology" for small boat sailing and kayak trip planning, related to predicted log methods. Part of that is to account for currents (Eldridge is key, as is Coast Pilots). Another part is to check long range weather, then as the date arrives, check short-term winds forecasts.

In trip planning, identify natural ditch points. These are New Haven Harbor at 9 nm, Branford at 16 nm, Clinton Harbor at 25 and my planned stop at Westbrook, at 35. If needed, the Admiral can pick me up from any local marinas.

For weather updates, I have both a hard mount and handheld VHF and weather radio, a cell phone, but no radar or weather-fax/XM weather. I may bring my PC with its Sprint Card, so I can rely on it for weather graphics.

Carrying and storing perishable food will be important. Milk for cereal for breakfast, coldcut sandwiches for lunch. My Cat25 cooler should be usable. I notice there's a step in it toward the bottom. Should there be a plastic grill resting on the step? - keeping the food UP and the ice and water DOWN? Any tricks or suggestions on using it? A few zip lock bags or a tupperware might also do the trick.

I'll take copious notes and snap photos. Wish me luck.

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 06/14/2008 : 11:38:47

LUCK

we look forward to see photos.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 06/14/2008 : 13:20:41

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Voyager
 

Carrying and storing perishable food will be important. Milk for cereal for breakfast, coldcut sandwiches for lunch. My Cat25 cooler should be usable.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Voyager,

I purchased one of these a few weeks ago and it works as advertised. It sat in the back of my truck for five days in 90 degree weather and still had enough ice in it to keep drinks cold. Down below the ice should last longer.

http://www.academy.com/index.php?page=content&target=products/outdoors/camping/maxcold_coolers&start=0&selectedSKU=0222-01260-3023

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 06/14/2008 : 16:12:47

about 60 miles that was a 10 or 11 hour day. You'll be tired but not too tire for a beverage (can there be such a thing?)

As noted above, have a very loose schedule. I usually schedule fallback plans as well. If we do not cross this lat or this lat by this time we are pulling into XYZ and grabbing a slip for the evening.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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4593 Posts

Response Posted - 06/14/2008 : 19:25:18

Suggestion, learned from a wise sailor for whom I crewed on a 100 mile race one weekend: To supplement your carry on cooler(s), take a cake pan big enough to make a block of ice that will just barely fit in the bottom of your built-in cooler, fill it with water and freeze it. Put the ice block in the bottom of the cooler and (this part is my idea) cover it with one of those dri-deck plastic squares, also cut to fit, to keep the bottom stuff from getting soaked, and load food & beverages on top. The ice should take a few days to melt. Try it on a weekend trip first to see how long the ice will last.

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5371 Posts

Response Posted - 06/14/2008 : 23:16:45

GaryB - I like the cooler and the price. Igloo is a good brand.

DavidP I like your suggestion about freezing the biggest block of ice that will fit. I should be good for a while on both counts.

Duane - I recalculated my trip based on 3 kts on average. Ten to eleven hours ought to be the outside of my day 1. Chilled beverages will be in order.

Edited by - on

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