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West Marine tether fails offshore

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redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/11/2008 : 11:12:47

I forgot to post this warning. We bought a standard westmarine tether and we have a real Wichard one... well wouldn't ya know it, I pulled the quick release only to have all of the parts fall all over the place... Returned it to West Marine - they gave me a new one for whatever that is worth - they know about the problem and should do a recall in my opinion. Anyway, the silly keyring pull is crap and if it gets dislodged it will let all of the components fall out....

I am going to buy a real Wichard from defender.... anyone want this one?

sten

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2008 : 11:51:58

Our harness and tether are bot Victory sailing gear - so far no problem.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2008 : 11:55:22

Sten, good to know. Shame on WM. I recently bought a tether from Defender. I havent used it yet but hopefully this weekend.

SOSP Safety Tether
Item # : 552250
6' Flex Tether
With Wichard Hook & Quick Release
Manufacturer: STEARNS
Model Number: G32

On a related side note, I got my weekly email from Harbor Freight. They advertise a 2" X 30 FT. HEAVY DUTY TOW AND RECOVERY STRAP. It appears to me to be very similar, if not the same, to WM and others, Jackline. The price is $32.97. They also have a 20' for under $25. I dont use jacklines but wonder what you all think. Here is the link:http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=97338
Steve A

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2008 : 12:37:06

It's a huge strap! We have one as a backup Tow Strap, used it and it dragged JD and the trailer up a ramp without any signs of thread pulls on the stiching.

Paul

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2008 : 13:07:05

Steve, I think the 2" width would be too wide for a jackline.

BTW, One failure does not a recall make. If WM knows of a recurrence of Sten's circumstance, that warrants investigation and I'd imagine their liability attorneys would agree. If not, it's simply the case that a shackle broke, and while potentially tragic, it isn't cause for condemnation of the vendor or even the product. $&!% happens!

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2008 : 13:39:37

John, good point re 2" width. Yes jacklines normally 1", so probably wont work as jackline. Better keep as tow line. I was trying to same members some bucks.
RE tether, stuff does happen but if WM knew about failure,as Sten mentioned, I am surprised they sell it unless there is new model.
Sten, can you comment of this? Not sure why you would accept replacement unless its new model. Otherwise I would want refund.
Steve A

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 06/12/2008 : 06:46:57

We did not have the receipt. We had cut off the tags that indicated it came from WM. The initial clerk called the manager who then readily agreed to replace it and commented that he was familiar with the problem. That's all I know. I took the tether and will use it as a backup, but I will replace the key ring pull with something more substantial. That's all. If the keyring pull comes undone, then the inner spring and the locking pin falls out. I am assuming that since we are in Newport which is arguably the sailing capitol of the world and the manager knew of the problem, that there have been others who returned said tether for the same reason.

Note: the tags I cut off clearly state: "WARNING! Inspect before each use. Replace if damaged in any way. Color fade on the webbing of this product is an indicator of loss of strength. Replace when this occurs." These are manufactured by Sterns, not Wichard. A wichard tether has Wichard stamped into the clips.

A word on jacklines. Use ONLY 6000 lb. test webbing to craft jacklines if sewing your own. SailRite sells this material. Cheaper webbing deteriorates FAST in the sun and elements and it will break. We bought a bunch of the cheap stuff to tie stuff down on deck like the spare propane tank, and the gas tanks, etc. and after 6 months some of the webbing was looking really bad, and then when I went to resecure a couple before a passage, they just snapped under minimal load... Not a place to save money.

sten

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 06/12/2008 : 11:48:19

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 
BTW, One failure does not a recall make. If WM knows of a recurrence of Sten's circumstance, that warrants investigation and I'd imagine their liability attorneys would agree. If not, it's simply the case that a shackle broke, and while potentially tragic, it isn't cause for condemnation of the vendor or even the product. $&!% happens!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

When we were shopping for safety gear, the failures of teh WM harnesses and tethers came up repeatedly in a number of forums. I think it is a good product to avoid.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 06/12/2008 : 12:31:47

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 
BTW, One failure does not a recall make. If WM knows of a recurrence of Sten's circumstance, that warrants investigation and I'd imagine their liability attorneys would agree. If not, it's simply the case that a shackle broke, and while potentially tragic, it isn't cause for condemnation of the vendor or even the product. $&!% happens!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

When we were shopping for safety gear, the failures of teh WM harnesses and tethers came up repeatedly in a number of forums. I think it is a good product to avoid.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I guess I'm just naive but, I find it difficult to believe that a major supplier of marine safety equipment would knowingly continue to sell faulty and therefore dangerous products. Not because they're such nice guys but because the liability costs would overwhelm their business. Anecdotes such as the one Sten describes while believed and certainly frightening do not constitute data. OK, maybe one data point but not a trend. In the year and a half that I've been hanging around here, I don't recall a lot of negatives regarding WM tethers and harnesses. There certainly may have been preferences made for others, as Sten does for Wichard, but I always have looked at that as personal preference. As a guy whose personal circumstances require him to look at the price tag before buying anything, I look with skepticism (and admittedly maybe a little cynicism) at those that have to buy "name brand" items thinking all else to be inferior quality. I'm not suggesting that to be Sten's point of view. I'm just saying that this is a pretty strong accusation based on something less than data.

I just think that it's easy and often somewhat popular to bash WM. Anecdotes become stories that become legends that, with time, become widely accepted as fact. Right now we have an anecdote.

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2008 : 09:43:47

Quote: "I look with skepticism (and admittedly maybe a little cynicism) at those that have to buy "name brand" items thinking all else to be inferior quality. I'm not suggesting that to be Sten's point of view. I'm just saying that this is a pretty strong accusation based on something less than data." 

We don't always buy name brands, hence the WM tether onboard. A Wichard will run at least double. I really tried to avoid buying one, still have. Data is - as you probably all know - easily manipulated. How many tethers sold and how many failures? The tether did not fail under load, it failed when I went to release myself and go down below. So the failure wouldn't cause harm really. All we did was reverse the tether and tie the busted part to our attachment point. Pain in the ass, 'cuz that meant that I would have to go forward on the port side as I was down one tether. The tether still functioned, just not as designed.

WM - aka the evil empire

- bashing is common and sometimes unfairly. BUT, absent more information, the one thing I think we will all agree on is that quality does come with a price. Sometimes we all cut corners on stuff and then find out that generic macarroni and cheese isn't as good as kraft on the dinner plate...

sten

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2008 : 11:14:38

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">When we were shopping for safety gear, the failures of teh WM harnesses and tethers came up repeatedly in a number of forums. I think it is a good product to avoid.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Let's be careful here. The WM harness was rated a Best Buy by Practical Sailor. They were very satisfied with it.

We use the WM harnesses and the WM Offshore ISAF Tethers with the Kong clips. All have worked well for us.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 06/13/2008 11:17:54

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2008 : 11:42:57

As you may be able to see - THIS IS the replacement tether. The pull ring is clearly pulled away from itself and if left like this it can undo itself. The tags are still on it. Never been used. Dunno if practical Sailor got one like this, but now I am on number 2... Does that count as data?

sten

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2008 : 12:08:47

One new employee on an assembly line changes everything, and as an ex product manager, I promise the Practical Sailor unit was hand picked if WM had anything to say about it.
I would replace the cheezy ring with one from my inventory.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2008 : 12:29:41

A few things:

1- Thanks for the photo. It helps to see the problem part. Yes, replace that ring.

2 - That is the lower priced "standard" WM tether, not the ISAF tether. Still, the ring is a problem they should have caught.

3- Practical Sailor rated the harness high. I forget how they rated the standard (what you have there) tether. The new ISAF tether was not out yet.

Here is the ISAF tether:

[url="http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/producte/10001/-1/10001/337191/377%20710/0/tether/Primary%20Search/mode%20matchallpartial/0/0?N=377%20710&Ne=0&Ntt=tether&Ntk=Primary%20Search&Ntx=mode%20matchallpartial&Nao=0&Ns=0&keyword=tether&isLTokenURL=true&storeNum=8&subdeptNum=399&classNum=400"]WM ISAF Tether[/url]

In my view, the price difference is well worth it. I'll check the clips tonight.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 06/13/2008 12:40:09

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2008 : 23:26:44

I think we are all fairly intelligent people here and are able to decide for ourselves and make our own decisions when reading information, whether it be in forums like this or the news, print or tv. The latter being an evil empire in my mind.
Take it for what is worth. But I appreciate ALL that is shared on this forum. This forum keeps me sane.
Finally whether it be standard or high quality, stuff should not break down especially when its safety equipment such as tethers, PERIOD.
Personally I do prefer to buy higher quality stuff, especially safety equipment. But I do shop Walmart for stuff I don't really care about that wont put my life in danger, like a $7 5 gallon solar hot water shower.(hint, hint)

Edited by - piseas on 06/13/2008 23:32:23

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2008 : 23:37:28

FWIW, I checked both our WM tethers that I just got last month, one's the same model that Sten had problems with (it was on clearance), and the other is the next model up, both with dual tethers. Both have a proper split ring keeper on them, not a cheap wire one which is what looked like was on his.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">But I do shop Walmart for stuff I don't really care about that wont put my life in danger, like a $7 5 gallon solar hot water shower.(hint, hint)<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

So, Steve, does this mean you've given up the [url="http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16628&SearchTerms=boycott,china"]good fight[/url]?

Edited by - delliottg on 06/13/2008 23:41:47

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 06/14/2008 : 00:07:57

I'm sorry. A tether is a tether regardless of price. Do not market it as such if it is not capable... f U if I have to go forward and unclip to go under the boom brake only to find my tether useless. Nobody told me I was buying the "starter" tether... that is BS and we all know it... a lot of folks will buy this tether thinking they are OK... BS in my opinion... what good is it if it fails? If I cannot reattach offshore 'cuz of a failure what good is it? Sorry, I have proof... WM stuff is often crap and here you go... wanna trust your life to this crap? I don't.

sten

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 06/14/2008 : 00:20:27

David, I am impressed and tickled you remembered. No, not at all. Since I made that statement, I have reduced my China made stuff dramatically. I look at every box to see where its made. Yes that solar hot water shower is made in China, as they all are. And of course I rationalized in my mind, "its for the boat". And like someone pointed out to me in my old post, "It will be impossible not to buy stuff from China". Yep.
I still am very committed and have NOT given up the "good fight". I read in the newspaper(evil empire) the other day, that the importing of products from China are down, I think it said 10%. So I continue the fight. But I have also bought a voltmeter and headlamp(all for sailing) and all made in China. Please dont ask me to give up sailing. Thanks for caring, David.
Steve A

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 06/14/2008 : 02:05:31

Steve,
I like a man who'll stand by his principles, but still is willing to live in the real world.

I am unlikely to ever get far away from Chinese goods, lest you forget, I have a Malaysian-Chinese wife... Although I have to say she has a fairly low opinion of mainland Chinese. Her grandparents are from Hainan Island, not mainland China. And I notice we buy a lot of Japanese goods, or Taiwanese, not mainland China stuff. The WM tethers are probably made in Taiwan.

Edited by - delliottg on 06/14/2008 02:06:37

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 06/14/2008 : 09:34:23

Interesting topic - Chinese made items. I remember when "Made in Japan" meant that the item was low-priced junk from a country that had attacked the USA and which had been governed by an Imperial Emperor. Now, Japan is a strong ally, a democracy, and I drive a Toyota which I think is a great car.

Of course the Toyota was built in Tennessee which is indicative of the world economy we live in. We are now a global community.

Personally, when I buy I look for quality regardless of where an item is made. I also believe that it is in the best interests of the USA and the world to have a China that is developing and in touch with the rest of the world. Their rising middle class is actually important to us.

Looks to me like China is going through the typical cycle of a developing country - start off exploiting the cheap labor and then build from there. That's what Japan did.

Of course China's government is far from what we would want but it is showing signs of moderation and they are far more open to the rest of the world than even a decade ago. Capitalism, a rising middle class, and the Internet will change China dramatically.

Best thing of all is that we have a choice of what to buy and we can each make decisions about that.

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 06/14/2008 : 11:23:01

What I like about WM is that they will discuss every little nuance of the stuff they sell. That said, you have to know if the person dispensing the information knows what he's talking about. I've been to WM and talked to a guy about those plastic stay protectors, I bought six of them and installed them. Then I heard here that those things promote rot. I removed them to investigate and sure enough, there was green growth.
There are other guys at WM that are true experts and have been a valuable source of info.
and now, because we're on a dual thread here....
One of my best friends is third generation Chinese. He is one of the funniest people I've ever met. He tells a running joke, delivered dead-pan, of how HE drives like a Chinaman. Anyway, my point is, he is boycotting Chinese goods and subsequently, he got me involved in boycotting Chinese goods - his reason: China, as one of the oldest countries in the world should have gotten it right by now.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 06/14/2008 : 11:57:39

Mike so right re getting knowledgeable salesperson. You would think they should be well trained. But you can have bad salespeople in any line of work. I wont even go into those in my line of work-insurance.
So how are Canadians viewing buying stuff from China? That is great your friend is boycotting. I love it.
Steve A

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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 06/14/2008 : 19:32:08

Nautiduck: Thanks for buying a product made in Tennessee. We try hard to make good stuff, regardless of who owns the company!

Edited by - dmpilc on 06/14/2008 22:55:48

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