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jaredeking
Deckhand

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USA
16 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/30/2002 : 12:09:38

I've been doing some research on new outboards and I've narrowed it down to the Honda 9.9 Four Stroke 20 inch Longshaft for my 1986 Catalina 25. My thought process is that Honda has a good reputation, the best warrantee, and some good options. The downfall is that it costs a little more. Does any body have any input for or against the Honda and does any body know a good online source to purchase the motor. The cheapest I've been able to find locally here in the bay area is 1880, but after you throw in prep and tax, it is almost 2100. Thanks in advance for the info. -Jared

Jared on LA BELLAMER in San Francisco Bay

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125 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2002 : 12:38:33

Jared, It seems that most of us on this forum have concluded that 8 horse rather than 9.9 serves 4 purposes. #1 a 9.9 will not push a 25 foot boat any faster than an 8 horse ( hull speed is realistic max, even with a 50 horse) #2 the honda 8 will get significantly better gas mileage than the 9.9 even at hull speed. #3 the size and weight of the 8 horse is so much more user (you) friendly. #4 It is cheaper than the 9.9. In addition I believe most of us (particularly we who live in San fran and know about waves and wind....) would ALWAYS opt for the extra long shaft which is 25". If you get out on a typical day in the bay with some afternoon chop, your prop will spend at least half of it's time spinning in air...instead of water. That ain't good for the motor, or your wallet. Also since a Catalina motor is not centered, and even though you may be motoring on a windy day.... you will heel some, and if the motor is on the "high side" a 20" shaft will Not have the prop in the water.....Ask others, think about it, you can't take it back later

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2002 : 12:46:42

A few observations from a satisfied (so far) Honda owner...

1. Go Extra-Long! The long shaft is 22.2, the XLS is 27.7--in SF Bay, that's an important extra few inches to keep that prop in the water.

2. To save a few boat units, the 2001-02 Honda 8 is the same engine as the 9.9, but with a limiter on the throttle--preventing some very high revs you'll NEVER use.

3. I believe Honda seriously discourages (or disallows) mail-order sales--they want their dealers to set up and test the engine for the customer. There were a couple of horror stories on this forum about engines sold in a crate...

Gotta run... Good luck!

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - on

Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2002 : 13:57:19

I would agree with the above posts about needing an extra long shaft. I have had both the 9.9 BF100 and the BF8A. I recomend the lighter 8Hp with the high thrust prop for sailboats. The engines are realy about the same for early models. The new ones the 9.9 and the 15 use the same power head. It use to be the 8 and the 9.9 used the same power head but this changed arounf 2000/2001. I bought an 8hp in 1999 and it outperforms my old 9.9 by a mile. YOU NEED THE X LONG SHAFT. I have been in rough seas several times and its a life saver when the wind waves are BIG.

Doug&Ruth
Wind Lass
Tacoma Wa.

Edited by - on

MarkTM
Navigator

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USA
178 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2002 : 15:56:40

Actually, Douglas, it is the other way around . . . the 9.9 and the 15 were the basically the same motor. My 1998 9.9 is virtually identical to the 15. Now it is the 9.9 and 8 (you know, the ones with the space-aged looking rounded cowls). I believe it was the 2000 model year when it all changed, but I may be wrong.

Mark Melchior
C250wb "Lorelei" #384
[url="http://www.texassailor.com/"]<img src="http://www.texassailor.com/texas.gif " border=0>[/url]
(click flag to visit Central Texas Sailor)

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125 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2002 : 17:01:01

Mark, I have the 2000 8 horse exlong shaft, and it is the smaller head style. So the bulbous new style shroud would have started in 2001.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2002 : 17:53:18

Yes, it started in 2001. The 8 and 9.9 are now the same size, shape, weight, displacement, compression,... Only the peak RPMs are different--limited on the 8 by a little tang on the throttle linkage, as I recall. For our purposes, the only difference is the cost. The "Power Thrust" 8 has more than enough for our boats--I'm constantly impressed by how it starts and stops ours.

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 08/30/2002 18:01:42

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2984 Posts

Response Posted - 08/31/2002 : 09:40:48

I own a 93 Honda 8 long shaft and a 2001 Honda 8 extra long shaft offer the following comparisons.

2001 is the new design, same motor as 9.9...
xls is far better for sail boats...
30 lbs heavier, in part due to electric start...
Uses a bit more fuel...
Stops quicker...more reverse thrust...
Much better turning lock or turn friction ajuster...
Easier motor flushing...
The auto choke is probably not an improvement...
Tighter fit in confined motor well...
Spin on oil filter...
Lower idle...
Exhaust is not thru the prop to kill reverse thrust...compared to old 9.9

It is a fantastic cruising motor... quiet and pushes the c250 to hull speed in smooth water at half throttle.

The big drawback for me... was I enjoyed using my old Honda 8 also on the inflatable during cruising... it was easy to swap it from boat to dink. It would plane the dink with two large men aboard. The 2001 Honda wont allow that...for two reasons. The DC cable (though some disconnect might could be worked out) but weight is the big factor... moving to the dink would be very difficult. 30 lbs as well as the size difference is a killer.

This means a seperate motor for the dink... and the old Honda 8 is too heavy at 70 lbs to leave on the dink under tow. I need to trade it for something for the dink light enough to leave on under tow... and hopefully able to plane with one person aboard. Any suggestions?

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224

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arlingva
Navigator

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USA
116 Posts

Response Posted - 09/02/2002 : 20:48:16

Have a 2003 Honda 9.9 XLS and electric start

Obviously a brand new motor. Starts fine pull or electric. Electric start is probably a waste. Quite but there is a RPM range where I get a lot of vibration either from engine or motor mount.

For my limited amount of use, I love the motor.

Bill, C 250WK

Bill Swanson
C250WK #614

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/02/2002 : 21:27:47

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
...there is a RPM range where I get a lot of vibration either from engine or motor mount.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
If you have the extension mount on your C-250, you could be experiencing what we C-25 owners get with our brackets--a harmonic frequency at a particular range of engine speeds gets the the bracket and transom vibrating. Typically, a little faster or slower smooths it out. I may try a rubber mat over the mounting board next year to try to dampen it out, but if it works, it'll be a pleasant surprise.

Arlyn: As I see it, you have two choices: Go 2-stroke for maximum hp/weight for planing, or get a Honda 2 for minimum weight with unmixed gas (compatible with your other Honda) and air cooling. I like the latter, but I'm generally not in a hurry...

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 09/02/2002 21:28:49

Edited by - on

jaredeking
Deckhand

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USA
16 Posts

Response Posted - 09/03/2002 : 12:06:23

Fellow Sailors,
Thank you for the wealth of information that you all have provided. I've looked into it and according to the Honda Marine website, both the 8 and 9.9 weigh exactly the same (92lbs for the long shaft with tiller and manual start). Everything including all demensions are exactly the same. The only difference is that the 9.9 is obviously 1.9 horse power more than the 8 and it's RPM is 5,500 vice 5,000 (probably caused by some sort of governor). I think this concurs with with what some of the later responses indicated. This change occured in either 2000 or 2001, I'm not sure.
I hear the arguments for the extra long shaft and I'm going to look into it, but my arguement would be, if there is afternoon chop on the bay, that means there is afternoon winds on the bay and if there is wind on the bay, why would I be using my motor in the first place? The only time I've ever used my motor is to get in and out of my slip and when the wind is coming straight down the Oakland Estuary where the small width of the channel cause hundreds of tacks to get out, but prevents swells or chop of significant size from forming. Once again, thanks for the info and I'll post an other reply when I actually make the purchase.
-Jared

Jared on LA BELLAMER in San Francisco Bay

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3324 Posts

Response Posted - 09/03/2002 : 12:48:07

Jared - remember the Boy Scout's motto "Be Prepared"! One day you will be caught in a storm or a front with too much wind to sail in. (I've been there, done that several times, and I sail on an inland lake!) Those conditions create much chop and/or waves, and you will bless the day you chose an XLShaft...
Derek on "This Side Up"

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LeighMarie
Navigator

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USA
188 Posts

Response Posted - 09/03/2002 : 14:37:57

Jared - In the "For whatever it's worth file:" I purchased, in June of this year, a Honda 9.9 long shaft motor and it has done spectacularly. I did a ton of research, talked to far too many people, posted here endlessly (at least I thought) and for me I chose the Long shaft over the extra long shaft. The big thing was to get a mount that has enough travel to get it down into the water. I have about 13 inches of travel on my mount and it actually gets it into the water just a bit too far. With a shorter travel on the mount the extra long shaft would be alright, but I didn't want that long of a motor to get up and out of the way.

I didn't feel at all comfortable going with an 8 hp motor (sorry guys!) so it was a choice between the 9.9 and the 15. The 9.9 is a great motor and has the power thruster and runs specatularly. I feel for me that it was the best choice, and I obsessed about that choice much more than I did over even buying our new Suburban which costs substantially more, and it has been wonderful. (The Suburban is too!) I also got the electric start which my wife and I love.

If I were to do it again, I would research far better of where to buy it, not whether to buy it or not. I bought it from a place that really had no idea of how to mount a motor on a sailboat and there's no way I will go back to them for assistance or even for questions. I would have expected more from a Honda dealership, but I was disappointed greatly.

Anyway, if you go for the 9.9 long shaft with enough travel on the mount you will love it!

Dave & Sharon on "Leigh-Marie"
Hull #5128

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tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 09/03/2002 : 14:39:54

Jared,

I sincerely hope that you heed the advise offered here regarding the need for the extra long shaft motor. I had a new twenty inch shaft motor that I used on a previous boat and it worked reasonably well when I switched it to the Cat 25. But as has been stated the water isn't always as flat as a table. When the chop is upon you is when you will wish for the extra shaft length. I'll attest to that.

Best of luck.

Val on "CALISTA" #3936

Val Bisagni

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/03/2002 : 14:59:43

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I hear the arguments for the extra long shaft and I'm going to look into it, but my arguement would be, if there is afternoon chop on the bay, that means there is afternoon winds on the bay and if there is wind on the bay, why would I be using my motor in the first place? The only time I've ever used my motor is to get in and out of my slip and when the wind is coming straight down the Oakland Estuary where the small width of the channel cause hundreds of tacks to get out, but prevents swells or chop of significant size from forming.Jared on <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
Jared: If you really only need it for getting out of a protected channel, a used Evinrude could save you a good twenty boat units! On the other hand, if you suspect you may want to motor back in SF Bay's famous chop, the rule is simple: Longest is best. Just take some measurements to be sure you can both lift and tilt far enough to get the skeg out of the water in your slip. I tilt my XLS one notch with the bracket raised--that does it.

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

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