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Can I screw the bilge pump to the bilge floor?

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bexusflexus
Deckhand

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USA
14 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/17/2008 : 23:12:41

Hopefully this is an easy question to answer. I have a 1979 C25 fin keel and I am in the process of installing an automatic bilge pump switch and bilge pump. I have tried to secure the switch and pump on the floor of the bilge with silicone but am not satisfied with the results. I am worried that the silicone will not hold. Is it ok to screw these items to the floor of the bilge w/short stainess screws? If so, about what length would be safe?

Thanks,

Kevin

1979 C25 #1419

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OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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3462 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2008 : 05:41:00

Others with the experience regarding your question will have to weigh in on this one. My personal opinion is that even if you could screw something into the floor of the bilge (and I am pretty sure you can), I would be reluctant to do that. I would explore all other methods rather than compromise the integrity of the hull especially if not through bolted. Why not use some epoxy just to attach the sections of the perimeter of the pump. If you use just a few epoxy attachment points with the intent that if you ever want to remove the pump, you could cut just thru the epoxy, then that would be a better way to go about it. For example, there are a number of depth finders these days that provide an option to mount transducers inside the hull and not through it. While, on this Board one can use a toilet bowl wax ring glob to secure the transducer and get a good signal, many of the depth finder mfrs will recommend to epoxy the transducer into the hull. I do not recall any that attach by screwing down on the inside of the hull. They either rcmd, transom mounting, through hull mounting or epoxying inside the hull.

In your case - epoxy seems the way to go for mounting the bilge pump.....but I would want to secure it in a way that I could remove it if necessary and so I would not apply the epoxy on the underside of the bilge pump but only to a few attachment points on the perimeter...and perhaps with a small 1/16" footing of plastic/wood at the attachment points so that if I ever had to remove the pump, I could cut through the epoxy safely...above the hull original surface.

Edited by - OLarryR on 06/18/2008 05:43:49

Patrice C25
1st Mate

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78 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2008 : 07:42:19

Hi,
Why not just epoxy two strip of wood to the bottom (could use some 3M5200 if don't want epoxy). Could be halfmoon shape, to hold, locate, the pump. And this would give you material to screw a retaining strap over the pump. It would then be easy to remove if required....

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DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2008 : 07:51:48

Good idea Patrice. My pump is screwed in to the hull by the keel (by the PO) and seems just fine but if I were doing it I'd take Patrice's advice.

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Stardog
Captain

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USA
319 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2008 : 08:25:27

I'd like to second Patrice's suggestion. Drilling holes into your hull in the bilge can mean water seeping into the hull, causing damage over time. If you expoxy your mount to the hull you can place it in any location and at any angle for best position. I've added a few mounts this way over the years, I glass them all the way around and paint with gelcoat to get a finished look, also glass the attachment points to give much greater strength. Glass and gelcoat also protect the wood underneath so you won't have to worry about replacing the piece for many years.

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2008 : 08:41:55

Use adhesive (epoxy, 5200, liquid nails etc) to mount an appropriate piece of wood to the floor... then use short screws to mount the pump to the wood. Either use a moisture resistant wood like teak or use epoxy to saturate/seal it to prevent it from degrading.

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Jefffriday
Navigator

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USA
198 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2008 : 09:56:17

one other question, I am doing this same thing, can you plumb the electric pump in series with the manual pump (using the same hose)? does the manual pump have a one way check valve? do the electric pumps? If I us a separate hose for the electric can I Tee the two at the transom so I do not have to put in a second through hull? and if the electric pum or the manual does not have a check valve, then does the hose have to be routed up somewhere above the waterline at all heel angles to keep reverse flow out? (my post about my recent water in the cabin episode has me nervous about all this)

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DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2008 : 10:08:27

I refer you to [url="http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=17901"]this thread[/url] in the "General Forum" Jefffriday as far as running the two bilge pumps in series. The short answer is, "I wouldn't". I'm not sure if the bilge lines have check valves in them or not but I don't think it's a bad idea. I think the general consensus on T-ing is no, but read the tread. And lastly, regardless of the check valve, IMHO the outlet should be on the transom or past the heal (is that possible

) line just to be redundant.

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JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2008 : 12:00:26

Keep in mind when they "sistered" my keel bolts they drilled 6, 3/4 inch holes through the floor of the keel well 6 inches into the keel, then tapped threads, then put in new bolts.

If you can have 6, 3/4 inch holes 6 inches deep I think a couple of stainless screws will be OK.

No leaks, no "Catalina Smile".

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piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2008 : 15:08:59

[quote]<i>Originally posted by Tom Potter</i>
<br />.

I prefer to use adhesive but tend to agree with Jim re short screws. But what about also screwing into space in between bilge and keel bolts? Rule does make a bracket.
Steve A

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bexusflexus
Deckhand

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USA
14 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2008 : 18:19:36

Thanks for all of the informed responses. I am leaning toward the epoxy route. I was thinking of using some of the underwater epoxy you buy in the stick at WestMarine. Anyone have any experience with that?

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Bortiquai
1st Mate

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88 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2008 : 21:18:44

I've got one of those Rule Automatic pumps, and right now have an old hammer resting on top of it to keep it in place. I've decided I don't want to drill the screws. But my problem with the epoxy/5200 route is that that is permanent-ish. If the bottom half of the pump (blue plastic filter-ish screen thing) gets gunked up, (as it has after cleanings) it seemed to me like it would be a pain to clean out. My idea was to come up with a brace or something on top of the pump that could easily be removed (replacing my hammer).

Edited by - on

bexusflexus
Deckhand

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USA
14 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2008 : 22:42:15

Yup, I'm using a brace right now in the hopes of holding the pump down while the silicone dries. My brace is a wood block on its end touching the top of the lazarette molding and the other end on the bilge pump. Us sailors know how to jury-rig eh?

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Jefffriday
Navigator

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USA
198 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2008 : 13:16:05

How about making a bracket utilizing the Keel studs sticking up?

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Bortiquai
1st Mate

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88 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2008 : 14:08:09

I was thinking a small 2x2 piece of wood epoxied/5200'ed-ed across the sump (like a bridge) with a notch where the pump could slide under. My pump actually stays in place pretty good with nothing hold it down. It just sort of leans to the side a little. Of course, I feel better with something holding it down. Hate for it to lean over too far then have the water start coming in.

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piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2008 : 15:28:14

OK, how about this. If the pump will fit in between the keel bolts, take a piece of wood and drill 2 holes to fit the keel bolts. Install pump and lay wood on top, aligning holes and tighten down with nuts. Jury-rig or Micky Mouse-you decide.
Steve A

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Bortiquai
1st Mate

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88 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2008 : 18:27:46

That's a pretty good idea, actually. My problem is there is no thread left on my keel bolts. I poured a few layers of rust arestor on them, and now they are just big black crystalized blobs. But if i had bolts with threads, that is exactly what I would do. Might even use a piece of thin aluminum so the wood doesn't rot.

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ilnadi
Captain

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452 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2008 : 09:28:15

for the float this is what I was planning
1. take a rectangle of not-wood (starboard, Alu, lexan, etc) just bigger than said float
2. drill holes to match the ones in the float base
3. epoxy countersink bolts pointing in the holes
4. 4200 board to bilge floor where you want float with the bolts pointing UP
5. Now you can mount/remove float on the bolts
reality: the guy working on the engine saw the new float sitting in the bilge, screwed into a heavy piece of Alu and set it in the bilge. it is raised 1/4"+ but it ain't going nowhere. I'll do it my way when I am done with everything else (yeah, right!)

I think the pump does need to sit on the bilge floor to be efficient. Mine iz zip-tied to a keel bolt but I need a better solution. It walks up the bolt with vibration no matter how tight I zip-tie it. I really like Steve's idea (also either I need a new pump or new o-rings or better grease for the o-rings, the pump always picks up better with pressue on it.

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