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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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VHF Channel 20

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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/26/2008 : 14:45:36

I hailed a buddy on the lake the other night on channel 16 and he said to go to channel 20. I did and was not able to transmit or receive. I thought one of our radios mght be bad. So last night I tried to communicate on VHF channel 20 between my iCom handheld and my iCom main VHF. Nada. But on the main VHF the letters "port ops" scrolled through the screen.

I googled and found that channel 20 is reserved for "Port Operations." Does that explain why my radios do not seem to function on 20?

We cannot direct the winds but we can adjust our sails.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 06/26/2008 14:48:26

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2008 : 15:51:35

Randy this is what I pulled of the internet:
PORT OPERATIONS - These channels(1(fn5), 5(fn3), 12, 14, 20,
63(fn5), 65, 66, 73, 74, 77 ) are used in directing the movement of ships in or near ports, locks or waterways. Messages must be about the operational handling movement and safety of ships. In certain major ports, Channels 11,12 and are not available for general port operations messages. Use channel 20 only for ship-to-coast messages. Channel 77 is limited to intership communications to and from pilots .
But even if that were the case, I dont know why you didnt hear anything. Did you try other channels?
Working channels for reacreational boaters are 67, 68, 69, 71, 72, and 78.
Steve A

Edited by - piseas on 06/26/2008 15:59:27

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2008 : 16:23:26

Yes, we ended up moving to 17 and it worked fine. 16 also works fine. It's as if the radios were programmed not to be able to use 20.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2008 : 16:39:44

I will try to go down to boat tonite-for sure this weekend- and give 20 a try. I will let you know. That is strange.
Steve A

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2008 : 18:20:58

Well, I've been googling and it turns out that there is a lot about VHF frequencies that I do not know. For one, I shouldn't be using channel 20 to start with, it is meant for ports to guide in ships. Also, 20 is "duplex" channel meaning that it uses different frequencies to transmit and receive. That requires a transmission tower to be in the middle of the transaction to do the conversion. The channels that are recomended for general boater use are simplex channels where the transmission and reception frequencies are the same.

Also note that some duplex channels, including 20, have an "A" version (20A) that operates in simplex mode using the transmission frequency of the duplex mode. These "A" channels are only available in the USA and the radios have a switch that can select US channels. Next time out I will see if the switch gets me 20A. Of course, it is still a Port Operations channel so I shouldn't use it.....

Not sure if I should continue my quest to understand the frequencies or just stick to the recommended recreational boat channels.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 06/26/2008 18:22:04

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2008 : 19:57:36

Sure enough, here is the response from my e-mail to iCom. I am impressed by their quick response.

"Good Afternoon.......

Thanks for your e-mail.

Yes, there is a very good reason why you cannot communicate over channel 20. In your instruction manual, towards the back of the manual, you will find a channel list. Look at the line and columns for channel 20 and you will see that the transmit and receive frequencies are different. This is call a Duplex channel and it is primarily used by commercial traffic and also the Coast Guard. Thus if you are on channel 20, the radio is waiting to hear a signal on 161.600 MHz but the radio you wish to hear is actually transmitting on 157.000 MHz, so there isn't any way the two radios can "hear" each other. Instead, you should use a Simplex channel. Any USA channel that has an "A" designation is simplex as is channels 68 and 69 and others. Again, please refer to the channel list at the back of the instruction manual. I hope that this will help."

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2008 : 20:27:54

Nauti-nauti...

You shouldn't be using 17 either. Remember, most of the VHF band isn't for us amateurs--know which channels are, and only listen to the rest. If you have an old radio that can use 70, DON'T--it's reserved for digital calling and distress call data.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 06/26/2008 20:32:30

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2008 : 12:13:32

I know, 17 is reserved for state use. I'm blaming this all on my buddy - he's the one who said to go to 20 and then 17.

He also lurks this site.

I think I'll post a little note by the VHF that lists the channels that are OK for recreational use.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 06/27/2008 12:15:38

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2008 : 12:39:24

Randy, Working channels for reacreational boaters are 67, 68, 69, 71, 72, and 78. My radio manual has a list I will post as well, but you can find online. Good idea.
Steve A

Edited by - piseas on 06/27/2008 12:41:08

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 06/28/2008 : 08:05:40

More radio edumacation. Love it! Yeah, in some parts of the ICW when we would be hailed by a passing vessel, they would request that we go up one. I would always request moving to a rec channel, and some sounded quite surprised as if it was a pain to click the buttons too far! Then at some imaginary lined point, everyone stopped "going up one", and started using rec channels again. Any ideas? We did hear someone on 17 tell the chatty cathy's to shift their traffic only once, sounded like a pilot. But it was tolerated in a lot of places.

Also, depending on where you are, Radio Checks are allowed on 16 and are answered either by SeaTow or Tow Boat US. In other places the Coasties will scold you soundly and request that you get a radio check on 9. Does anyone really listen to 9? I forget to until I want a radio check. Then it's impossible anyway since nobody is listening to 9. So I wait until someone requests one and I try to beat the coasties with a comfirmation and my position. 95% of the time they would respond with a thank you, thereby giving me a free radio check.

More interesting radio data. Ship to ship is really done on 13. Your vessel may be hailed on 16 and the "ship" will request you shift to 13. During some portions of our trip north, we monitored 13 and 16 ALL the time as it is common for the pros to try you on 13 first. Which if you too are a good sailor and know this, shocks the pants off of em and they will be all chatty and ask where you are from and where headed, all kinds of bridge to bridge stuff.

And then there are idiots who don't listen to their radios and you'll hear the ship hail them forever before in a couple of cases doing the 5 blasts thing. I've actually been hailed by a passing ship to ask me if I know those people!

Now about those "Alpha" channels... Foreign cruisers often complain about the Coasties requesting that they "switch and answer two two alpha." Some foreign flagged boats and some radios are not programmed to accept 22A. There is something in my instruction manuals for the three radios aboard - read pain in the butt to switch - about disabling the Alpha part for the rest of the world. As one cruiser told me, "Why does America have to be so different?" I know, my Sprint phone won't work in Europe - but their phones will work here on the GSM network which is universally adopted, except here!

Anyone know why?

sten - out!

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 06/28/2008 : 08:26:16

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redviking
 ..."Why does America have to be so different?"... Anyone know why?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Because we're Amurca and they're not. Amurcans don't worry about what the rest of the world is doing--even if they're doing it better.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 06/28/2008 : 09:26:41

GSM is one of the three most common standards, the rest of the world is not standardized either. Tri-band phones are nearly universal now and work anywhere. Television also has competing standards, but France is at odds with most of the world. Companies and consortiums develop the systems and compete to become the universal standard - big bucks involved.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 06/28/2008 : 09:33:18

The cell phone use depends on your SD card I believe. My wife traveled in Europe a couple summers ago and her sister's phone (Sprint) worked fine over there. She had contacted Sprint before she left.

If those crazy Euros would just drop their metric system, weird electricity, and funny money we'd be OK!

By the way I have traveled a fair amount in Europe and the Middle East. They have their share of jerks too.

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 06/28/2008 : 09:38:16

Ooops, sorry - what's with twentytwo alpha? why the alpha?

I have talked to sprint - still have a euro phone...

sten

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 06/29/2008 : 16:21:08

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redviking
 Ooops, sorry - what's with twentytwo alpha? why the alpha?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">As I recall, alpha says it's a simplex US channel--send and receive on the same frequency. I believe 22 (no alpha) is duplex--send on one frequency and receive on another. Radios configured for US operation only offer 22A, which as you know is a CG channel.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 06/29/2008 : 18:01:06

Alpha (A) channels use the transmission frequency of duplex channels but in simplex mode - both transmission and receiving use the same channel.

Apparently in Europe, but not US, there are "B" channels that use the receiving frequencies of duplex channels but in simplex mode.

Channel 22 (duplex) and 22A (simplex) are Port Operations channels used to direct traffic.

It is important to check your radio settings so that you have chosen the US channel group. Many modern radios are capable of getting several groups.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 06/29/2008 18:03:36

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 06/29/2008 : 18:34:28

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Nautiduck
 Channel 22 (duplex) and 22A (simplex) are Port Operations channels used to direct traffic.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I don't think so--22A "belongs" to the Coast Guard--if you hail them on 16, they'll likely tell you to switch to 22A. They also use 22A for details of weather alerts and other announcements they'll make on 16.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 06/30/2008 : 00:07:17

My bad, you are correct. I was thinking of 20A.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 06/30/2008 00:11:38

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 06/30/2008 : 10:41:43

This has become so complex...it seems to change each time we buy another radio. But all of this is pretty important to keep up with. I've had a hard time following the changes also. Seems more trouble than it is worth sometimes. Stay off 16 and use the few others ( 67,68,69, 71,72, 78 .

I set mine up like many on the gulf coast to scan a few channels and let others know which ones when I log off.

i.e. ( this is "Leaky" monitoring 16, 9, and 68 )

If someone wants me they can then hail me on 68.

The other thing I've heard suggested is keep the radio on low power to prevent so much bleed... they transmit farther than you think.

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