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Refueling on the water

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britinusa
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Initially Posted - 06/25/2008 : 07:47:33

During our trip to Bimini, we motored on day 2 for 13.5 hours. That required several refuels.

We carried 2 x 5gal fuel cans and a 2gal fuel can (plus the 3.5gal in the fuel locker tank). The spares were sat in the cockpit in front of the pedestal guard along with the generator. They fit very nicely and a shockcord from pedestal though the tank handles made them pretty secure, they were pretty well jambed in place.

To refuel we had to raise the locker lid, pull out the tank, put it on the stbd side by the engine and then manage a 5gal tank with flexi nozzle to refuel. Obviously awkward.

I just purhcased a fuel siphon from Harbor Freight for about $3.00 and tried it out. SWEET

Now I just need to put the spare tank on the stbd catbird seat, lift the fuel locker lid, setup the siphon and a few minutes later we're done.

I had thought of installing a cowling vent in the stbd side of the fuel locker so that the siphon tube could enter via that, but we would not be able to view the tank filling and risk an overflow.

Paul

Joint Decision. (Sold)
PO C250WB 2005 Sail # 841.

Moved up to C34 Eximius

Updated August 2015

Edited by - on

redeye
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Response Posted - 06/25/2008 : 09:48:52

full tank above empty tank.

line in vent hole of upper tank, same size as vent hole.

put mouth around gas can opening and blow, forcing gas into line and then it siphons to the lower tank.

also works with using the same hole for line, just a little more difficult.

beats pouring.

Edited by - on

Stardog
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Response Posted - 06/25/2008 : 10:49:38

What about getting a second fuel tank, complete with quick-connect fuel line? Then you only have to disconnect, reconnect spare and squeeze the bulb to prime.

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dmpilc
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Response Posted - 06/25/2008 : 10:59:27

I like Stardog's idea. Seems a lot easier.

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aeckhart
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Response Posted - 06/25/2008 : 12:45:02

I usually carry a 12 gallon and two six gallon tanks on extended cruises. I can rotate each on the fly. There's usually enough fuel in the fuel line to keep the engine running while I add the new tank. I am usually within motoring distance of the next safe haven with the 12 gallon can but you never know when you'll need more when cruising. Safe havens on Lake Superior are usually 20 to 30 miles apart.

I've been siphoning to refill gas tanks for a number of years. It's especially helpfull at the dock to fill my wife's inboard Bayliner. I adopted a fuel tank hose by reversing the hose on the bulb (long hose in the full can, short one in the fill end). One or two squeezes gets the fuel moving. I can usually do a five gallon tank in about 10 minutes, with an occasional squeeze on the bulb to speed things up.

Edited by - aeckhart on 06/25/2008 12:52:20

piseas
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Response Posted - 06/25/2008 : 13:22:06

Paul, on my first trip to Catalina Island last year with my newly purchased C250, I had my standard 3gal. in the fuel locker and one 6 gallon spill proof (what a joke)jerry can but with no connections. Just short of reaching the island the 3 gallon ran out and I have to remove the 3gal and fill it up with the 6gallon via a gas spout. What a disaster in 2'-3' rolls.
Once I got back home, I ordered the Tempo 6 gallon tank(last one made) with a fitting for my Honda.
On my next trip to Catalina I used the new Tempo 6 gallon and never ran out. That's sweet. But had I run out, all I would have needed to do is use quick disconnect for both tanks. No mess.
Steve A

Edited by - piseas on 06/25/2008 15:24:42

delliottg
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Response Posted - 06/25/2008 : 14:42:11

We've now got three fuel cans, the 6 gallon metal one that came with the boat, another Tempo 6 gallon I found on CL for $20, and the 3 gallon that came with our new outboard. I have them all rigged so that all I have to do is switch tanks on the quick disconnect using the same fuel line, and I have a new tankful of fuel to work with. 15 gallons of fuel should get us a pretty far distance, although I have no idea how far with the new engine yet. All three have fuel gauges so I can see about how much I have left.

The Tempo wedges nicely between the boarding ladder & the port locker, and I think the new Tohatsu tank will fit in the transom area bungied down although I haven't tried it out yet.

I haven't had to refuel on the water (or at least not underway), and don't want to if I can avoid it.

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britinusa
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Response Posted - 06/25/2008 : 15:28:48

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by piseas
 PWhat a disaster in 2'-3' rolls.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Exactly.. although 2'-3' rolls would have been heaven! I told peggy that they can't be 8' waves as we would have to look up to see the tops.. She pointed up to the top of the wave alongside us and said "Like that?" We put up with heavy seas for nearly 11 hours. Refuel (on my own as Peggy was 'busy' below) was the reason my track showed us going around in circles! Not nice.

I like the idea of adding a quick connect to a second tank.

Do you think it would work adding an extension tube to the spare tank? (quick disconnect at the spare tank end and quick connect at the other end to attach the primary fuel hose.)

Paul

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piseas
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Response Posted - 06/25/2008 : 16:15:58

Paul, That's my point exactly. Even in 2 or 3' seas, its hard and dangerous to pour gas. Both my tanks have quick disconnects(male end) that I attach the quick connect(female end) of the primary fuel line. You don't need to add an extension tube, if I am to understand you. I will try to get a [url="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8db10b3127ccec46a00c7215800000046100AZNXDVu2cMmIPbz4G"]pic[/url] for you so you can see the male end for both tanks. This will only work if you have a place for fittings on the tank.
Steve A

Edited by - piseas on 06/25/2008 16:30:14

delliottg
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Response Posted - 06/25/2008 : 16:50:35

This is OT, but Peggy should never go below if she's seasick, presuming that was what she was busy with. The confined space (and probably fairly hot) combined with not being able to see the horizon will just throw her inner ear off even more, making her sicker. She should stay up on deck & watch the horizon. Even better, have her drive, having something to do and to focus on dramatically reduces your chances of getting seasick.

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Stardog
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Response Posted - 06/25/2008 : 19:13:39

I know gasoline fumes aggravate seasickness also, I learned that the hard way as a child.

I've tried pouring gas in moderate seas and it was a mess. On the other hand, it's not really economical to purchase a bunch of tanks with quick disconnect. I'm wondering if there is a manual pump to be had that would fit on a fuel line? It seems it would be nice to attach to a large spare tank with quick disconnect, pump your working tank full and reattach, all without having to expose an open tank top.

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piseas
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Response Posted - 06/25/2008 : 20:24:17

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stardog
 
I've tried pouring gas in moderate seas and it was a mess. On the other hand, it's not really economical to purchase a bunch of tanks with quick disconnect. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Cliff, I was fortunate to buy one of the last tempo 6 gallon tanks for under $20 which has a quick disconnect. I lucked out. So now I have the 6 and the original 3 gallon, both w/ quick disconnect. These two meet my needs. I do also have a 1 or 2 gallon tank for my dinghy outboard.
For those like Jim that make long trips-1 week or 2- bigger or more tanks are necessary. But even if cost was more to have quick disconnect, I would prefer than to any other method, for safety reasons. No way would I want to siphon from one tank to another.
Steve A

Edited by - piseas on 06/25/2008 20:26:23

Ed Cassidy
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Response Posted - 06/25/2008 : 21:07:02

For what it's worth, here is an article from the Jacksonville Fl newspaper.

DUVAL COUNTY: Crews to continue search for overboard boater

Searchers were to continue efforts today to recover the body of a 27-year-old Miami man who fell off his sailboat Friday while sailing with his wife in the St. Johns River.

Cesar Martin Montano was attempting to refuel his 27-foot boat with a gas can while it was under way just south of the Shands Bridge near Jacksonville. Lt. George Pottorf of the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission said Montano wasn't wearing a life jacket when he fell overboard.

Officials from several agencies searched throughout the weekend with no result.

Montano and his wife, Jennifer Montano, were on a 12-day trip that began in Miami. They were headed for Welaka from Jacksonville when the incident happened.

This happened awhile back and there never was any additional information.
Ed

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redviking
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Response Posted - 06/25/2008 : 22:36:06

Quote: "Exactly.. although 2'-3' rolls would have been heaven! I told peggy that they can't be 8' waves as we would have to look up to see the tops.. She pointed up to the top of the wave alongside us and said "Like that?" We put up with heavy seas for nearly 11 hours. Refuel (on my own as Peggy was 'busy' below) was the reason my track showed us going around in circles! Not nice."

Wow! Good job! And you are not gonna sell your boat! love it! In my opinion, refueling at sea in those conditions is really hard without a plan. My C25 tossed pretty good in heavy stuff and wow! Yeah, get spare tanks. I would say, and how was Bimini? - that a trip that far should involve a reall big tank strapped down somehow just under the rudder. Why mess with it?

There was a guy on a Hunter 25 with the really hot girl who cronicled his adventures going to the islands and I think he had a similar setup. Anyone still have that link?

Sten

DPO C25 #3220 "Zephyr", SR, FK
SV Lysistrata - C&C 39 - Newport RI

Edited by - on

britinusa
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Response Posted - 06/26/2008 : 05:58:14

I agree about staying up top when seasick. Peggy ducked down into the cabin when the storm approached (NOAA didn't say nutin about any stinkin storm!

) So I wasn't aware that she was heaving without a line. When chance (lull) arrived, I would pop open the cabin and ask how she was doing, a smiling face and waving hand indicated 'ok'. Peggy is a nurse and puts up with all sorts of krappe' so she handled the situation very well.

Reading the thoughts and methods of others here on refuelling, the one thing I want to avoid is tipping a can up to fill the active tank. I'm sufficiently environmentally concerned at spilling even a drip of gas. The siphon works very well, but the second tank with quick disconnect would be the better way to go. I could just pull the fuel hose out from the back of the locker and attach it to a second tank, a 6 gallon would be really good, and the second tank that could be in front of the helm could be at least that. The only issue is the fuel hose would have to lay along the cockpit deck. So that would require the second tank to be in the stbd walk through.

Paul

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redviking
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Response Posted - 06/26/2008 : 08:13:24

Quote: "I would pop open the cabin and ask how she was doing, a smiling face and waving hand indicated 'ok'."

One of the mods on Lysistrata is the one piece clear plexi hatch board.

When it's bad, my wife can see me and I can see her. I also can see radar et al AND we can communicate! In addition, at night when she is at the helm, I can see her from the starboard pilot berth and see that she is "bouncing around like a butterfly"

The night watch is still a tad uncomfortable for her.

Anyway, two mods I always meant to do to my C25 were the plexi hatch and rigging some sort of lee cloth on the starboard settee...

sten

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Nautiduck
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Response Posted - 06/26/2008 : 13:09:10

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">There was a guy on a Hunter 25 with the really hot girl who cronicled his adventures going to the islands and I think he had a similar setup. Anyone still have that link?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Brian and Steph. They invented and market the Solar Stick. They cruise on a Hunter 25.5 and post their adventures on sailboatowners.com. I'll keep my eye out since they just completed another trip. Steph is distracting.

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SEAN
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Response Posted - 06/26/2008 : 13:46:02

http://www.sailboatowners.com/upload/display.tpl?folder=73245517131& fno=17
what Im the only one that saved it

paul we have a generator and I want to get a small hand held fuel pump that works on c or d batterys . the local hardware store has them for about $20 ,there for kerosen heaters .
there on the cheap side ,A 18" siff tube ,small pump on top then a flexable tube out.
and I havent seen them at home depot .

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piseas
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Response Posted - 06/26/2008 : 16:11:27

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by SEAN
 http://www.sailboatowners.com/upload/display.tpl?folder=73245517131& fno=17
what Im the only one that saved it

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Hey, forget Steph, check out the boarding ladder under latest addition. That is nice.
Steve A

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britinusa
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Response Posted - 06/27/2008 : 13:00:00

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">One of the mods on Lysistrata is the one piece clear plexi hatch board.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Ours has a darkened plexiglass panel in the hatchboard. And so does the sliding cabin top, but you cannot see into the cabin, only out.

Paul

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Happy D
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Response Posted - 06/28/2008 : 06:39:38

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">paul we have a generator and I want to get a small hand held fuel pump that works on c or d batterys . the local hardware store has them for about $20 ,there for kerosen heaters .
there on the cheap side ,A 18" siff tube ,small pump on top then a flexable tube out.
and I havent seen them at home depot .<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I don't think these can be used with gasoline.

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britinusa
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Response Posted - 06/28/2008 : 09:15:45

Tank swapout option appears the best method.

I can visualize a spare 3.5gal (wish I could get the 6gal!) in front of the helm, then when time to switch out, just lift the fuel locker lid, disconnect, pull the can out, pop in the fresh tank and reconnect. If needed, it would be easy to top up the now empty spare from additional tanks. The siphon really does seem the best way to transfer fuel between tanks, but even that method would be a bit of a challenge in any heavy seas. Whereas using it to top up the spare in front of the helm would be so much easier (sat down)

I consider that it's a rare day that we would use more than 6 gallons on a single leg of a trip, but if it's a possibility, then replacement tank and spare with siphon seems the best way to go.

Paul

Edited by - on

redviking
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Response Posted - 06/28/2008 : 09:32:32

I gotta great idea. I (briefly) thought about doing this on Zephyr because of the same issues, refueling at sea. Had to do it, wasn't easy, I used the jerry can with flow stopper method, but still spilled a bit of fuel. Anyway, why not have a tank made that fills the already created space? Someone could weld it the perfect size, install it and put a fill in the top. Easy, peasey and you'd probably be able to carry 12 gallons or more in the same space.

sten

Edited by - on

britinusa
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Response Posted - 06/28/2008 : 09:40:28

Yup, 12 gallons with a reserve switch!

Paul

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Nautiduck
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Response Posted - 06/28/2008 : 09:43:44

Paul, people are buying the metal 6 gallon tanks (new and used). There have been a couple of threads about them on the 250 forum. I like the idea of swapping tanks. We tried to refill the main tank while underway last year in 2-3 foot seas. Not good! A swap makes makes more sense.

Sten, in a 250 the fuel locker location may need to be accessed as it is just above the wheel/rudder connection on boats with wheels. I am about to add Arlyn's open wire steering kit and I believe I'll be doing some of the attachment in the fuel locker. Still, even a portable 12 gallon tank fabricated for the space would be a nice solution. These 6 gallon tanks only take half the space.

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GaryB
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Response Posted - 06/28/2008 : 09:45:32

I use one of these and it works great -->> http://www.boatshowproducts.com/SuperSiphon.html?gclid=CJv_j5-ul5QCFQx2GgodsB_GuA

I didn't buy it at this site so I'm not making a recommendation. I think bought mine at Northern Tool but couldn't find it on their site.

Edited by - GaryB on 06/28/2008 09:46:56

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