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VHF in Canada

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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/26/2008 : 18:45:32

More VHF. We'll be cruising in the islands around Vancouver Island in September. I get mixed results in researching whether we will need a license from the FCC to operate our VHF in foreign (I thought Canada was the 51st state?

) waters. Sounds like a license is technically required but the law is not enforced.

So for you US sailors who have bravely sailed into the waters of our great neighbor to the North, did you get a license and did anyone ever ask you for it?

We cannot direct the winds but we can adjust our sails.

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2008 : 18:48:59

Canada accepts US VHF licences.
I understand that US accepts our licences as well.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2008 : 19:59:03

Understood, but the US does not require US boaters to have a license so basically none of us do. The issue is when we sail into Canadian waters does the Canadian CG actually ever require/check for a license?

Edited by - on

mhartong
Navigator

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USA
152 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2008 : 21:43:03

International regulations require that the FCC properly license all U.S. ships/boats carrying VHF or SSB radios operating outside of U.S. waters. Two FCC licenses are required to be properly licensed; a Ships Station License (the official call letters for the boat), and a Restricted Radio Operators Permit (a license for the person operating the radio). The ships station license is $160 and is valid for 10 years. The Operators permit is $60 and is valid for the lifetime of the holder. If you have obtained an MMSI number from BoatUS,, that MMSI number cannot be used during the FCC application/licensing process. The FCC will issue you a new MMSI number.

Edited by - mhartong on 06/27/2008 15:33:22

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2008 : 23:46:02

Randy, in the States you have to finish every transmission with "Over". In Canada you finish with "Eh".

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 06/26/2008 23:46:31

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2008 : 11:40:34

Aye?

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2008 : 12:17:54

When I sailed through Canada I didn't need no stinking license. None of this stuff is enforced. Not unless you put out false Mayday calls!

Edited by - on

mhartong
Navigator

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USA
152 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2008 : 13:29:32

I would not say that NONE of the stuff is enforced. If you are boarded the boarding officials are well within their rights to demand the paperwork. And if they decide to play hardball about it, it could be a costly gamble. All it takes is to run into one official who is having a bad day, and their bad day becomes yours

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2008 : 14:24:05

Don't mess with the Canadian Coast Guards, they will make your day miserable if you don't follow rules.

Now don't get me wrong on what I am about to write, especially that this forum is mostly American. It's a well known fact that a minority of Americans believe that no matter where they go in the world that they will be treated accordingly to their rules. Unfortunately this minority is usually louder which creates a false perception that THEY are the majority. Something that I must explain most times I hear something negative about Americans and their attitudes where I warn not to generalize. Just keep in mind that you are in a different country and must abide by your hosts set of rules as I do when I travel to the United States. The USA won't come and fish you out from Canada if you're having problems. Don't believe in the Hollywood crap.

Saying that, you are very welcomed to our Country and will probably find the nicest people you have ever met always willing to lend a hand. And it's my experience so far whenever I get to cross on your side.

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 06/27/2008 14:46:44

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2008 : 14:55:39

OK, did some more research and this is the situation.

The Ships Station License is a USA requirement for US boats going to foreign waters. The Canadian CG does not enforce US laws so unless the USCG follows you into the foreign waters you should be OK.

The US also requires the Restricted Radio Operators Permit when leaving US waters. Canada requires the permit also for all of their boaters and the Canadian CG can enforce that one on US boaters.

My Waggoner's Guide, the Bible of PNW cruising, says none of this is actually enforced but that they (the authors) have both licenses and recommend that you have them too.

So, my guess is that 99% of US boaters who visit the maritime Canadian waters do not have either license and never are the worse for it. It is a risk assessment choice and now I need to make the decision. I think I will go ahead and get the Restricted Radio Operators Permit which is $60 and good for life. I don't want a new MMSI number and I sure don't want to tangle with those bad ass Canadian Coasties, eh!

And, let's face it. Canada and the USA are two of the greatest countries on this fair earth and we are fortunate to be neighbors!

Edited by - Nautiduck on 06/27/2008 14:59:58

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2008 : 16:15:14

OK, just applied and paid for my Restricted Radio Operators permit online at the FCC. I will probably never get checked but if I do then I've done the right thing. Plus $60 for a lifetime permit ain't that bad.

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2008 : 18:34:52

In Canada, you do not need a licence to monitor VHF radio transmissions nor to participate in emergency action. You are required to have a licence to send (transmit).
My experience is that the Canadian Coasties will not check for VHF licence.

The difference between Canadian Coasties and US is that Canadians will keep their guns discretely in view, they won't point them unless they are going to shoot.
I've had US coastguard guns pointed at me while sailing on a US boat in US water (just off Whidbey Island). They were checking for floatation device compliance.

Edited by - on

johnsonp
Admiral

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USA
606 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2008 : 19:07:02

stampeder
Do the border gaurds now have weapons?
The last time an American fugitive was being chased and headed into your country at Freedom the border was closed because gaurds did not have weapons?
What a backup that was.

paulj

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2008 : 22:37:17

Our border guards now carry side arms.
I believe we were safer before. What a great way to stop a criminal; cause a traffic jam and let the criminal try to make his get-away through a mob of cranky people stuck in traffic.

I wonder what Paul (Brit in USA) has to say about how much safer Britian was before the Bobbies had guns.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 06/28/2008 : 00:34:00

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">It's a well known fact that a minority of Americans believe that no matter where they go in the world that they will be treated accordingly to their rules. Unfortunately this minority is usually louder which creates a false perception that THEY are the majority.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Steve,
I've been to around 40 countries, and I go out of my way to try not to be the ugly American. However, I've experienced first hand a few truly shining examples on occasion and been ashamed to have been associated with them even if it were only by country. I'll spare you the stories.

I haven't spent loads of time in Canada, but I've never had a bad experience there. Rita & I plan to spend a fair amount of time up in BC next summer cruising about the Straits of Georgia, and I expect we'll have a grand time enjoying the hospitality of our cousins to the north.

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 06/28/2008 : 08:34:05

Randy,

You are lucky you are on a 25. Anything 30 feet and over will also require a cruising permit sticker from Homeland inSecurity.

Lysistrata's previous owner gave me the windows he had recently replaced because of the sticker as they had returned from Newfoundland and PEI, et al...

Visiting boaters staying in Canadian waters less than 45 days are exempt from most Canadian regulations for operator licensing and required safety equipment. However, you are correct, you must have a valid radio operator licence to transmit on a VHF radio outside the U.S. (listening does not require a licence).

As found on the net from a link a friend sent us.

Telephone Reporting: When a private pleasure boat enters Canada, the boat master must report to the Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) by telephone. Private boaters must dock at an approved marine telephone reporting site in Canada and call the telephone reporting centre (TRC) immediately on arrival.

The Boat: Fly your vessel's national flag at the stern. A "quarantine" flag (yellow rectangle) may be displayed at a starboard spreader. A Canadian courtesy flag is a nice gesture too.

The Captain and Passengers: U.S. citizens should arrive with boat "papers" in addition to general border requirements. American visitors can enter with photo ID.

Where to Check in: The captain of a boat arriving in Canada must report to Canadian Border Services Agency (was Canada Customs) immediately upon arrival. You must report in at designated stations, but, as a convenience, many marinas are elligible and have instructions posted by the docks with Toll-free phone numbers. It is illegal to stop or anchor anywhere in Canadian waters before checking in.Kingston Mills, the most southern Rideau Canal lock, is an official "Canada Customs Telephone Report Site". Canadian or American boaters can call directly to Canadian Border Services Agency (was Canada Customs) and receive their Customs Report number when entering the Rideau Canal as their first Canadian stop arriving from the United States.

Documents: Have your boat licence or registration information, and full names, citizenship, birth dates, and addresses of all persons on board. You may also require vaccination papers for pets. You should be prepared to wait for an inspector or to move your boat to another location if required. Be sure to keep all passengers on board until you have cleared entry procedures. Make an entry in your ship's log with date, agent's name, location of entry, and clearance number for reference in any future disputes. You can phone Canadian Customs, part of Revenue Canada, toll free at 1-800-265-5633 24 hours a day.

For getting back home, check this http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/newsroom/news_releases/06102008_4.xml

sten

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 06/28/2008 : 09:25:45

Thanks for the info Sten. I want to get the flags right. I removed my transom flag stick so I hope it OK to have the flags on my shrouds. I got a Canadian flag for Christmas! I figured I would have the US flag on one shroud and the Canadian on the opposite shroud.

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 06/28/2008 : 10:40:40

Quote: "Thanks for the info Sten. I want to get the flags right. I removed my transom flag stick so I hope it OK to have the flags on my shrouds. I got a Canadian flag for Christmas! I figured I would have the US flag on one shroud and the Canadian on the opposite shroud."

Negative... Your flag flies on the stern - roughly just above bimini height. Your vessel should be equipped with a flag halyard for this journey or you will have to improvise using a spare halyard. Starboard side, just below the spreader, the Q flag must fly, then when you are cleared in, you fly the visiting country flag. It is considered VERY poor form to fly both at the spreader. The original post I copied suggested that and I do not agree. It is also VERY bad form to fly the US Flag - which will be bigger at the spreader alongside the courtesy flag. ( A courtesy flag is what it is - a courtesy. But you don't want to see your flag outsized at that level - which is why courtesy flags are flown at the highest level even though they are small compared to the national flag of the vessel) It is again considered very poor form to fly the US flag anywhere but its proper position - again just above head height aft.

Finally,(RANT ON

) for those inclined to run the gigantic American flag from your main halyard way aloft, even in US waters: "I appreciate your right to patriotism and your patriotism. BUT chill, the mast is not a flag pole. In my opinion, you look like an idiot. Old glory should be run properly and with respect. Not as some way to get attention for your non descript sailing vessel moored in a place where real boats go. OK, I have seen it and heard the discussions. Not purty" End rant...

sten - out

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 06/28/2008 : 11:41:15

We followed those guidelines when we visited bimini.
Our US Flag was flying from the bottom of the topping lift.
Our Association Burgee was flying from the port spreader
Quarantine flag flying stbd spreader.
Cleared Customs
Replaced Quarantine flag with Bahamian Flag.

Upon leaving Bimini waters, we lowered the Bahamian Flag.
As we entered US waters, raised Quarantine Flag
Cleared Customs (Local Boaters Option) Lowered Quarantine flag.

Sound right?

Paul

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 06/28/2008 : 11:50:31

Randy, If you are headed toward Victoria there are two harbours there. The main one being Victoria Harbour where the cruise ships and ferrys enter. There are at least two CBSA check in phone locations - and there is a lot to do and see in that harbour. My suggestion is to check in at Esquimalt Harbour, which is about 2KM north. It is far less busy and much easier to access, and the check in phone is right there at the visitor dock. This is not a commercial marina but a Navy Marina...if you have any kind of affiliation, such as Power and Sail Squadron or Military or Police etc they will extend complimentary moorage/dockage for a couple of nights. I also strongly suggest Victoria Harbour which is a terrific location for visiting Victoria.
Victoria will be packed with US boats during August.
BTW - My Navy daughter will be posted in either Victoria Harbour beside the Coast Guard Station or she'll be in Esquimalt, starting Mid July. I'll warn her that Naughty Ducks may be in the vicinity.

Sten : we often refer to US boats as Big Flags. As in; the marina's full of big flags.

I gotta tell you, I have several good flag stories - one that stands out is the guy from Florida docked in Victoria Harbour in a beautiful Green boat, a 50 foot trawler type stinkpotter. A gorgeous boat, polished and gleaming, matching green tender etc. He was flying a large Stars and Stripes and as a courtesy flag, he was flying the Mexican flag (Bandera Mexicana). I guess it matched his boat better than our old Red Maple Leaf.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 06/28/2008 : 15:31:35

OK, I think I will fly the US Flag from the backstay just above head height. The Q flag will fly from the starboard shroud and then replace it with the <s>Mexican</s> Canadian flag after clearing customs.

Edited by - on

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