Association Forum - Catalina 250 WB PHRF 216?!!!

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Racing Forum

Catalina 250 WB PHRF 216?!!!

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

Member Avatar

Canada
1091 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/30/2008 : 00:23:51

My club gave me a PHRF of 216 on my Catalina 250 WB Centerboard. I see you guys around 238. They never rated a Catalina 250 before I think I'll have to bring it up once more. What do you guys think of 216 for my boat? If they are strict with the other boats as well then all balances out. Check out my club's web site and tell me what you think? I'm Vida Nova in Division 2.

http://www.sylvansailing.com/Racing/Results/Spring_PHRF_2008.htm

Steve Blackburn, Calgary, AB
C250WB - 1999 - Hull 396

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3323 Posts

Response Posted - 06/30/2008 : 09:51:55

Steve - a rating of 216 is way low. The other boats appear reasonable. On Canyon Lake we would rate the 250WB at 231 (compare with the C25 TM at 223 and the SM at 228).
I would definitely appeal that rating.
Derek
Chairman, PHRF of the Alamo

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 06/30/2008 : 12:43:40

The number in and of itself if meaningless without knowing its relationship to other boats. If they rate a catalina 25 sk std at 213 then you are right in line with Derek's example. I just did a quick google of PHRF Catalina 250 and WB and found everything from 198 to 228. 216 is not unheard of. In these few exmples th base rating when compared to a Catalina 25 usually shows the C250 as a lower number however I didn't delve deeply into the numbers.

There aren't a lot of 250's racing When you request a re-certification, in my experience the best evidence you can give shows your relationship to other boats. For example:

PHRF-of Mud Puddle wyoming shows 250 WB is 3 seconds higher than a C-25 STD SK and 60 seconds less than a Catalina 22.

Cite big PHRF Organizations with multiple boats . The multiple boats should help to show that the group rating them has experience with those makes and models. Bigger PHRF groups generally report their info to US Sailing annually, so your numbers should tie to the most recent PHRF book (available for purchase at US sailing by the way)

Cite multiple groups around the country.
Use Boats that exist in your home fleet as your examples..
Know, to the best of your knowledge what comprises the rating - ( the link to phrf sef below should help explain this) Some groups rate JAM and PHRF differently, Some have no spin credits, small sail credits, propeller and roller furling credits and everything else under the sun. Additionally some groups have different ratings for course length and type. Get a true apples to apples comparison.
When all else fails ask for a temporary rating for one year with a review. Then save all of your results and get others online here to do the same for you.

examples from my quick surf:

http://www.phrfsef.com/pages/2008/28081.pdf
http://www.yra.org/PHRF/docs/ncphrf_baserates.pdf
http://spirit65.homestead.com/files/sailboatdata.htm
http://www.texomasailing.org/lakefest/2006Results/2006Overall.htm

Edited by - on

SailCO26
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
457 Posts

Response Posted - 07/01/2008 : 09:19:39

Yep, the real thing you need to know is how your rating compares with the other boats you race with, not really what everyone else in the world is doing. However, looking at your link I'd say you might be rated at bit low.

I'd chime in about how we rate the C250 here (CO), but looking at our numbers I'm not sure WTF we're doing. But for the sake of info:

The only boat in your fleet that we also have in ours is the Santana 20 - which we typically rate 221-222 (with some oddball exceptions), and you rate 'em at 222 so we should be in a similar playing field (well, mostly - the S20 is considered an oddity around here as depending on conditions they can sail much lower than their numbers). We have 2 C250s - one rates 230 and the other 242. Not sure of the configurations of either boat, since they race in a different fleet than I do (CP25). The 242 boat took 1st of 14 in the Spring Series (http://csyc.org/Spring_Series_2008.htm), so that may well be changing soon! The C25s here typically rate 235, but we have one at 241 - again, different fleet from me so I'm not sure of the configuration.

Our PHRF group here hasnt updated the ratings list lately, but for some comparison here's the "overall" list for the area: http://rmsail.org/PH_ratings.htm (unfortunatly the C250's arent on the list yet).

Here, none of the C250s run a kite - it's strictly JAM for them, so bear that in mind when you look at these numbers.

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 07/01/2008 : 14:34:33

I run stock sails, no kite. A 110 jib and standard mainsail.

Edited by - on

SailCO26
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
457 Posts

Response Posted - 07/01/2008 : 16:20:20

No kite and a 110, 216 seems pretty low.

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3323 Posts

Response Posted - 07/01/2008 : 17:52:57

We would give you another 12 secs for your 110.
Incidentally, we make no differentiation between JAM and a Spin. If you run a chute you are either in one design or the PHRF spinnaker fleet.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 07/06/2008 : 12:21:59

Charlie (Sterngucker) got rated 261 here in San Diego on a C250 WB with 135% jib on roller furling and standard main. My C25 is 228 (spinnaker) and 248 non spin. Gary's C25 Tall Rig was rated 247 non spin (he's only giving me 1 sec/mile) but they gave a generous 6 sec/mile roller furling credit.

216 is too low if other Catalina 25's are in 222 - 228 range.

Welcome to PHRF racing! Everyone is always protesting their rating! I don't think the 1 sec/mile is fair between a C25 TR and standard. But I'll beat them anyway.

Something in the 260s or higher seems fair for the C250 since it is quite slow with a small headsail in light - medium air (In my opinion).

Fly a spin on that thing, a used J24 kite fits nicely.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 07/16/2008 : 15:01:51

Here is the PHRF data from the United States Sailing Association (USSA). It shows the composite average of PHRF ratings from around the country for our boats.

CATALINA 25 FK 228
CATALINA 25 FK TM 222
CATALINA 25 SK 228
CATALINA 25 SK TM 225
CATALINA 25 WK 228
CATALINA 25 WK TM 225

CATALINA 250 CB 225
CATALINA 250 WK 225

Catalina Capri 25 174

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 07/17/2008 : 14:05:40

So would 225 be with spinnaker or without?

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 07/18/2008 : 07:23:11

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Nautiduck
 Here is the PHRF data from the United States Sailing Association (USSA). It shows the composite average of PHRF ratings from around the country for our boats.

CATALINA 25 FK 228
CATALINA 25 FK TM 222
CATALINA 25 SK 228
CATALINA 25 SK TM 225
CATALINA 25 WK 228
CATALINA 25 WK TM 225

CATALINA 250 CB 225
CATALINA 250 WK 225

Catalina Capri 25 174

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Can I ask where you obtained these? USSailing publishes a book of PHRF ratings, however they publish the ratings of every reporting PHRF organization - each boat would have 20 to 30 different listings.

Edited by - on

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.