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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Water Ballast Stair Reposition

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528
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USA
181 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/03/2008 : 13:51:33

I have been working on a mod for access to the aft berth. I wasted 2 days making a column of 4" PVC to attach to the ballast box, which would support a step! I was looking at destructive and non-destructive mods to the ladder, then the light bulb went off! I will install a leg extension to the port side of the ladder to fully support that side. I don't think you will need to drill the 2 additional holes in the cockpit platform, the setup is pretty strong just temped in. I will probably cut back the step treads and have a hatch stowage slot in the same spot. I have to move my camper top clips, but it will still fit beautifully overhead. This should be a factory change in my opinion. Access to the aft berth is now awesome. Help me with the final details, and I think we have another top 10 mod for the WB.

Edited by - 528 on 07/04/2008 06:40:23

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2008 : 14:23:25

What the heck Dave, are you running for "modder of the year" or something? I'm not even done with the single backstay mod and now you're getting me going on another project! LOL

Seriously, can you take more pictures please? I don't quite see how you did this. Is this the new permenant position for the ladder or can you move it back to the original spot?

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 07/03/2008 : 14:29:58

Looks a little scary to me. That's a big open space leading to that centerboard cable. OUCH!!!!!! You've only gained about 6 or 8 inches of access because of the cable. And you only have the same 6 or 8 inches of usable tread on the stairs. If I had a WB, this isn't a mod I'd make. Sorry, but I think this is a convenience modifcation at the expense of safety.

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2008 : 14:33:07

I see a big PVC pipe over those wires.

Edited by - on

SCnewbie
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166 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2008 : 14:58:21

Additionally, the centerboard is only to prevent leeway on our boats correct? It is ballasted like the C25 Swing Keels. If the cables were to be cut, he just wouldn't be able to retract the centerboard. Am I missing something? I don't think i will do this one as my wife likes the V.

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John Russell
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Response Posted - 07/03/2008 : 15:20:32

You're right, the centerboard is not a keel. I'd be more concerned with the jewels than the cables after taking that first step.

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528
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181 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2008 : 15:34:49

The additional width by a ruler may be 6-8", but it feels like the difference between a mouse hole and a garage door when going aft.

I weigh safety quite high. Do you have non-skid on your treads? I added it years back, after going for a sled ride down those wet steps in the original position. That is a big open hole no matter where the steps are placed. If you loose footing, you are getting bruised. Additionally, Catalina did not produce the steps with a provision for when heeled. (My point is, safety is relative in this sailing endeavor, I was always told look before you leap.)

As far as the centerboard lines, I have the vinyl cover removed to quickly see if there is wear in the system.

Another benefit of this position is, a good place to sit at the galley, tends to lessen the need for the previous step/seat mod. I respect all your concerns, but I think if you use the aft berth, this is a worthwhile mod. I can now withdraw my application for the Russian contortionist position at the circus.

Edited by - 528 on 07/03/2008 15:36:48

Russ.Johnson
Commodore

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USA
843 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2008 : 15:45:03

Dave,

I like your mod.
From the comments, safety seems to be the biggest concern.
Do you think some type of handrail installed in the original (starboard) holes might help?
Or would that defeat the purpose of wider aft access?

Russ

Edited by - on

528
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USA
181 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2008 : 16:01:13

Russ, I am always trying to build a better mousetrap. I was thinking a couple weeks back about the amazing participation in this forum. There is something special about our 250's. My purpose is to create the most practical and efficient setup given my limitations. I won't give an opinion on a hand rail. If someone runs with the idea, and it works, post it and we will colectively disect it and personally decide on it. At times, I'm glad the boat is only 25', I coud see spending a lifetime modding a larger boat. I think we have an enviable compromise between yacht and boat...

Edited by - 528 on 07/03/2008 16:02:16

Stardog
Captain

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USA
319 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2008 : 16:32:33

What if you were to widen the top step so it reaches across to the original position and leave the lower step as you have it now? This would eliminate the problem of falling at you enter through the companionway and at the same time it would leave just as much room for your legs when you climb into the berth?

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2008 : 17:31:22

I think the ultimate solution is just to be able to set the stairs either in Dave's position or the original centered position. Instead of screwing in the steps at the back of the valve casing, why not screw in a tube where the legs would slip in? Same thing for the top.

Edited by - on

528
Navigator

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USA
181 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2008 : 18:08:33

Steve, I considered that, but after removing the assembly, it's pretty heavy and awkward. The other problem is that it is very rigid, that makes it tricky getting it into position. You may be on to something though with enough patience. Extensions have to be mounted to the lower legs as they hang short on the ballast box. Mounting a single slide tube with enough strength, and minimal play would be the challenge. Hurry up with that backstay, I want to see your new convertable steps!

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2008 : 18:44:56

Agreed the normal access to the aft berth is a bind, moving the steps does make a difference, but I think it would be better to swing them up out of the way than to move them.

If you stick with it, you can raise your hatch supports higher on the outside of the bathroom. We did that and it makes it much easier to grap the hatch from the cockpit.

I'll post pics of my waterballast keel haul system this weekend.

Paul

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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3704 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2008 : 18:48:12

Love the innovations! We like the aft berth and have wanted to deal with the stair issue. The Admiral came up with an idea and I built it. Cost about $1 and solves the issue for wing keels (sorry WBs

). It is called the "Admiral's Stair Master" and I will post pix tomorrow.

P.S. non-skid would be good. I, too, have hit the top step with wet soles and slid down to land on my ass in the cabin. Ouch!

Edited by - Nautiduck on 07/03/2008 18:49:16

528
Navigator

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USA
181 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2008 : 20:07:08

Here is the near final setup. Campertop frame reinstalled.
* Mark the bottom hatchboard rail to accomodate the stair leg.
* Remove and cut.(About 3") Remount bottom rail.
* Completely remove vertical hatchboard rail.
* Install 3" piece adjacent to head door frame.
* Remove steps and trim even with step frame. (Creates pocket for hatchboard.)
* Sand ends of steps as desired.
* Attach steps, take picture, admire, post to forum.
* Get beer and wait for comments!

Edited by - on

johnsonp
Admiral

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USA
606 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2008 : 20:45:58

528
Top drawer idea....

I'm sure with time and useage of the relocated staircase you will refine on the design.

I'm the saftey inspector and the design is OK.

Ah yes, the safety thingy, how many people will get hurt and sue and also when in dought throw in the grand kids thingy

.
Seems to me that the keel raising device was designed first, then the staircase and step height was built around it.

I did not keep count of the number times I used the head door to hold the stairs up on my 2004 C250WK and I know I'm the only one who did that because of safety issues.

On my boat the stair steps are not all the same height and depth so maybe that's why Catalina put a hand rail on as standard.

It appears to me from the Catalina Capri 22 to the Catalina 470 it's a real challenge from cockpit to cabin in respect to stair design.

paulj

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Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2008 : 23:38:19

Just a thought (in the form of a question): Why move the steps all the way over to port? You're blocked by the raising wires anyway. So Why not just move the step towards port until the starboard step post hits the wires? Wouldn't that give you the same amount of space + still be pretty centered?

From this:

To this:

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 07/03/2008 23:56:44

britinusa
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Response Posted - 07/04/2008 : 05:22:18

Off topic, the Admiral asked <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">What's that on the sole of the cabin? wood ???<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Steve, I think your idea is much safer. Plus it provides storage room to port of the steps.

Paul

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528
Navigator

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USA
181 Posts

Response Posted - 07/04/2008 : 06:35:22

Paul, that is the teak and holly floor from Catalina. Installed by the original owner. Part of the reason for mounting steps in this way is to reduce holes drilled in the boat. I think the pics are deceiving as far as the relationship of distance and utility. This is by far one of the best changes I have made. I'm standing on one foot kicking my own butt for not figuring this one out years ago. I noticed last night that typically everytime you go below, you brace a hand on each side of the deck opening. Until you actually try this mod, I understand the awkward appearance from the pics.

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SCnewbie
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166 Posts

Response Posted - 07/04/2008 : 07:11:20

LOL the admiral here wondered the same thing. Now I am in trouble for not finding one with the teak and holly floor. It does look very nice!

Edited by - on

zebra50
Captain

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USA
408 Posts

Response Posted - 07/04/2008 : 11:20:37

where do you store the companionway hatch-"front door"? the stairs are blocking the storage area

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528
Navigator

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USA
181 Posts

Response Posted - 07/04/2008 : 14:57:47

Jay, back up 6 posts on this thread and you will see the pic and instructions for the mod. Additionally, I found if you accurately cut the lower hatch rail to butt against the ladder leg, it creates a wedge effect that keeps the ladder leg from moving. Drilling a hole to put a screw through to the hatch rail or making a block support under the port leg, will insure a secure assembly. I have no regrets with this mod, it is outstanding!

Edited by - on

crystal_blue
1st Mate

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USA
70 Posts

Response Posted - 07/04/2008 : 19:47:52

On the idea of swing-up stairs:

I wonder whether it might be possible to build a collapsible set of stairs that would flatten out when you lifted the bottom edge, and then slide aft along a set of tracks installed above the aft berth?

(Does that make any sense?)

--Jim

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britinusa
Web Editor

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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 07/04/2008 : 19:50:45

I guess if the boat arrived with the steps like in this mod, then it would be 'normal'.

Paul

Crystal... how about a rope ladder

Paul

Edited by - britinusa on 07/05/2008 06:07:40

528
Navigator

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USA
181 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2008 : 08:20:43

Hey all, something I noticed when using the steps. Going below you tend to use one or two hands on the cabin top for stability, no change from previously. When coming up you naturally move to one side to avoid the mainsheet. In this case you exit to the port side, it's a natural motion. Again, I know it looks awkward in the picture, but it takes one time up and down, and I think you will be convinced. When removing the lower hatch rail remove only the 2 screws in the head. The 3 in the rail do not attach it to the wall. If it doesn't suit you, you can return them to the factory position. It's an easy mod with huge dividends.

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