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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

Gin Pole - Round II

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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/18/2008 : 10:59:07

This spring my gin pole setup did not work so well. With good feedback from this forum, and some additional research, I am readying version 2 which I believe will do the trick. I am posting the concept to get feedback - pro and con.

The C250 comes with a great trailer-based mast raising and lowering system. It really is wonderful. However, our San Juans jump-off point, Cap Sante Marina in Anacortes, WA does not have a lift that can accommodate the mast being up. So, on-water mast raising and lowering is required. I want a "works easy and every time" method. Here is the plan.

I took a lot of inspiration from an idea from Arlyn Stewart. He has attached a trailer winch to his gin pole. The winch provides excellent gear ratio and places the operator right near the shroud turnbuckles to keep an eye on those troublesome things. Here is Arlyn's gin pole:

Another technique I like is one I found at another web site. It is the technique that a fellow uses on his Mac22. Here is a photo of the gin pole in operation:

Here is the intriguing component that I plan to use as the pivot point for the gin pole. It is an anchor chain stop that has the gate removed and a couple of tabs ground off with a Dremel:

Here is the guy's web site if you want to see bigger photos. [url="http://mac22.valentina.googlepages.com/mods"]Valentina[/url]

I will use Arlyn's gin pole setup (which can double as a fishing pole for Orcas!) and use the chain stop device as the pivot point.

The winch line will go through a block at the top of the pole and then to the eye in the anchor locker. The jib halyard will be the link between the mast and the gin pole. I will also use the "baby stays" that come with the C250 trailer-based mast system so no "A" frame is needed to stabilize the mast from side-to-side movement.

Here are my components so far:

I am still deciding whether to go with a telescoping pole like Arlyn or a one-piece pole.

Also, I do not want the chain stop mounted permanently as it will surely be a "toe killer." So, I plan to do the over-drill, fill with epoxy, re-drill routine. Then I will attach the device with wing nuts inside the cabin when I need it. When not in use I will just have two bolts inserted with rubber washers, then SS washers, then nuts inside. No water will be able to enter the cabin or reach the core.

Thoughts??

We cannot direct the winds but we can adjust our sails.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 07/18/2008 11:08:30

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 07/18/2008 : 13:02:34

What about the guy who semi recently posted the "up in 5 min" "down in 5 min" thread with the link to a video on youtube? I don't have to raise/lower my mast often so didn't pay THAT much attention but it seemed like the dog's bark (hehe). (a 2nd thought) Oh, that was on a C-25, not a 250 so doesn't apply?

Edited by - DaveR on 07/18/2008 13:03:47

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 07/18/2008 : 14:20:26

Looks pretty seemless. Of course as we always said in the Army, the best plan lasts until the first bullet is fired. Let us know how it works out. I particularly like the winch idea. It may make a good C25/250 kit for sale at CD.

I've used both. The gin pole is quicker and easier to set up but the A-frame is a little sturdier in my opinion. The gin pole would be best for on-water mast raising in my opinion, as long as you have some side-to-side support for the pole and mast.

Edited by - aeckhart on 07/18/2008 14:25:14

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 07/18/2008 : 14:40:51

Randy, I would figure out a way to make your pole pivot plate an extension of mast base.

Couldn't you have a piece of SS that sat under the mast foot. The plate would reach out in front of the mast and have the pivot mounted on it.

As shown in the green and blue in this pic.

Paul

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 07/18/2008 : 19:51:45

How about a modification to Paul's idea, still use the plate, but mount it with carabiners or something to the turning block plate. It doesn't need to be firmly fixed to the base of the mast, it just needs to keep it from moving too much from side to side or up and down. Once the pole's in compression, it's unlikely to move, and it'll just pivot around the mast pivot bolt with the mast.

I was thinking about making sort of a Y or U shaped yoke that was lined with leather to keep it in place. The gin pole doesn't really even need to be attached to the mast, just held in place until it's in compression. Once the mast goes up, it can pop free of the mast w/o any damage to it or the mast. I've seen this done when jury-rigging a mast jumper to raise a mast. I was contemplating using a sturdy fiberglass/aluminum extension "boat pole" to do so. As long as the aluminum pole inside the fiberglass rod was solid, I think this might work. I found such a pole at HD or Lowes recently & bought it. I've since modified it to have a boat pole end and I'm thinking about filing the inside of the aluminum pole with a dowel & epoxy.

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 07/18/2008 : 20:00:29

And you can go whale fishing with it as well.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 07/20/2008 : 10:09:47

Hmmm... get a helium balloon with 50 lbs lift... attach to the masthead. :>) Wonder what size it would take... guess I could figure it out. (98% kidding here)

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 07/20/2008 : 11:04:42

Bruce, we could be in the trailer-sailor Hall of Fame if we could create a helium balloon system to raise masts! I can see the first trial run now:

Captain - Fill up the balloon now.

Admiral - OK, it's filling.

Captain - Look at the mast, it's going up!

Admiral - The mast is floating away up into the sky.

Captain - Oh crap! I forgot to attach the stays!!

Edited by - Nautiduck on 07/20/2008 11:05:18

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 07/30/2008 : 20:21:42

OK, I took the tips to make it removable and came up with this design. The rope keeps it snug against the mast. Almost all pressure on the gin pole will be pushing it aft and it fits nicely against the mast plate. It is a 3/4" plywood with the hardware bolted on.

Edited by - on

RICK CARR
Deckhand

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Australia
2 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2009 : 16:49:55

THERE IS A NEW VIDEO ON YOU TUBE SHOWING A TELESCOPING MAST WITH GIN POLE SETUP FOR RAISING ALL WIRELESS ELECTRIC THOUGHT YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE! GIN POLE IS FIXED TO MAST BASE WITH NO SIDEWAYS MOVEMENT SO MAST STAYS CENTRAL ON ITS OWN WEIGHT ON CABLE THE MAST IS RAISED USING THE ELECTRIC TRAILER WINCH ATTACHED TO THE FORESTAY THROUGH THE BOW ROLLER AND IS WIRELESS SWITCH CONTROLLED SO YOU CAN WALK AROUND BOAT TO MAKE SURE CABLES DONT GET CAUGHT UP HAVE A LOOK .

Edited by - on

skrenz
Captain

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USA
351 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2009 : 09:17:43

Randy,
I was wondering why you need a separate winch? Couldn't you lead the raising line from the turning block back to one of the jib winches? When we raise our mast using something somewhat similar to what you have designed, the jib winch works fine and can be operated by the admiral. True, you need to be a little careful to tail the lead so as not to accidentally let go all at once but so far this has worked well. With a self tailing winch you wouldn't even need to worry about that.

Edited by - on

TractorJohn
Deckhand

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USA
24 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2009 : 14:26:33

It seems like everyone has their own ideas that work for them with some minor problems. Over the years I have built several systems, some better than others.
Currently on my 25 tall rig I use the mast step as a gin pole pivot point. I use an extra long bolt and my gin pole has a 4 inch fork in the bottom that fits on outside of the step. I use a block and tackle attached to the head stay bracket and run the line back to a sheet winch. (by the way, I use my spinnaker halyard to raise the mast but I do not use the snap shackle, I tie a bowline next to the shackle.) I secure some lines to the sides to keep the mast mostly in the center and up she goes. I then remove the pole and replace the step bolt with the shorter original.
I want to warn everyone to watch out for a loose mast step, they aren't designed for the sideways force a tilting gin pole set up subjects them to. My boats step is secured with 4 short little wood screws and not thru bolted like a cleat or stanchion I found my screws loose and stripped and I could have had a major headache before I bedded them in epoxy. TJ

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2009 : 18:25:18

Steve, I like having the winch on the gin pole because it puts me right there at the mast and near the shroud T-bolts to make sure they stay in the right position. Also, the gin pole winch has a reverse ratchet that allows me to lower the mast under good control.

I have the Admiral off the boat. If the system should fail - however unlikely - I don't want anyone in the cockpit. With my method, actually Arlyn Stewart's method, nobody is behind the mast.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 08/28/2009 18:26:30

Happy D
Admiral

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921 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2009 : 05:28:00

I thought the idea behind the A frame was to keep the mast centered while raising.
What's the benifit of using only one pole?

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2009 : 07:09:23

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Happy D
 What's the benifit of using only one pole?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

One ans: No A Frame on board!

On our boat, anything that can do double duty has the advantage.

Besides, Rusty ol A Frame? Humbug

Paul

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2009 : 08:19:56

Happy D - the C250s have "baby stays" which are two temporary stays that are used only for raising and lowering the mast. These stays attach below the spreader and connect to a forward stanchion base. They perform the same function as the A-frame which is to stop sideways movement. Therefor only a pole is needed for the leverage to raise and lower the mast.

Edited by - on

Happy D
Admiral

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921 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2009 : 05:08:38

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Happy D - the C250s have "baby stays" which are two temporary stays that are used only for raising and lowering the mast. These stays attach below the spreader and connect to a forward stanchion base. They perform the same function as the A-frame which is to stop sideways movement. Therefor only a pole is needed for the leverage to raise and lower the mast.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Didn't realize that Randy,
Thanks for the info.
Dan

Edited by - on

essen48183
Navigator

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USA
143 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2009 : 22:11:54

my last boat had a winch that operated the swing keel, you didn't flip any levers/ratcheting mechanisms or anything... just turned it one way to go up, the other way to go down... it was locked in place whenever you stopped turning it and you could operate it with one hand. Is there a name for this type of winch, does anyone use this type for mast raising, and does anyone know where I can get one?

Edited by - on

essen48183
Navigator

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USA
143 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2009 : 22:15:44

I think it was like this one used for raising/lowering portable radio antenna towers.

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?R=28674& storeId=6970& productId=28674& cm_ven=natural& cm_cat=netconcepts& cm_pla=Google& cm_ite=brake%2Bwinch

Edited by - essen48183 on 08/30/2009 22:19:58

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 09/05/2009 : 08:41:57

I made an A-frame using 2x4's that I secure to the forward lower deck attachment eyebolts, but playing off of TractorJohn's method, has anyone drilled a second set of holes in the mast, say a foot from the bottom, for firmly attaching a gin pole using a spare mast step bolt?

Edited by - on

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