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Roles of the crew

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leebitts
Navigator

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USA
122 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/31/2008 : 12:26:28

I got from the spinnaker thread that Andy laid out a crew consiting of:

Helm
Pole
Trim (me)
Twing – essentially pit
Foredeck – doubles as tictiguesser.

Helm's role is to steer the boat, and in my case to handle the main sheet and traveler (should I be doing that?)
Pole - is to handle the spinnaker pole?
Trim - is that for jib sheets?
Twing - What do they do
Foredeck - get the jib over the stanchion?

I usually race with 3, sometimes 2 and sometimes 4

I'd love some insight on this.

thanks in advance

LeeBitts
1981 Capri 25 Hull # 142
Sailing in NH and Maine

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2008 : 14:24:51

The way that you allocate your crew duties depends partially on how your boat is rigged. For example, the positioning of the mainsheet traveler might dictate that the helmsman do it (as is generally the case on a Catalina 25), or it might be the duty of one of the cockpit crew.

Ordinarily, I like the cockpit crew to consist of a release man, a tailer and a helmsman. All three, however, must coordinate their efforts to work the boat efficiently.

Upon hearing the preparatory command (Ready about!) the release man and the tailer get in position and announce "Ready." The release man checks to see that the jibsheets are on the cockpit seats before each tack, so that nobody is either standing on them (foot cleat) or sitting on them (butt cleat). Upon hearing the command to execute (Hard alee!), the release man removes the jib from the cleat at the appropriate time during the tack, unwraps it completely from the winch, releases it, and watches it to make sure it runs freely through the blocks (i.e., no hockles).

At the preparatory command, the tailer gets in position, puts two wraps on the winch, inserts the winch handle, and pulls in the slack in the lazy sheet. Upon hearing the command to execute, the tailer begins to bring in the slack in the sheet, without putting any tension on it. When the boat is nearly head-to-wind, the tailer begins to pull in the jibsheet as fast as he can, hand-over-hand, palms-down. As the tailer pulls the sheet with each hand, he should pull it back, past his leg, and then continue pulling it as far as he can reach behind him. By doing so, he will pull in the maximum amount of sheet with each stroke. The release man should keep clear of the tailer, so he can swing his arms freely. If the helmsman does a good job steering the boat, the tailer should be able to bring in all the slack and trim the jibsheet for the next course without using the winch.

The helmsman should steer the boat through the turn, and he should stop the turn when the jib is streaming back parallel to the boat's gunwale. (If you turn the boat past that point (in strong winds), the jib will load up, and the force of the wind on the jib will prevent the tailer from sheeting in the jib by hand. He'll have to use the winch to pull it in, and that will take much more time and effort. After the tailer has the jibsheet in all the way, the helmsman should bear off the few degrees necessary to load up the jib. Unless the rigging of the boat requires it, I prefer that the helmsman not tend the mainsheet and traveler. Usually one of the other cockpit crew can do so, such as the tailer.

The tactician should be the person who knows the most about racing tactics, and how to read the wind, regardless of whether it's the helmsman, foredeck, tailer, release man, or otherwise. I prefer that the foredeck crew not be the tactician, because, when he shouts his advice to the helmsman, half of the competitors can also hear it, and I hate to help my competitors, or alert them to what I'm about to do.

If shorthanded, the tailer should also be able to act as release man.

All three need to coordinate their functions. A bad release person or a bad helmsman can make a skilled tailer look like a bumbling oaf. They need to practice together.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 08/01/2008 15:12:59

SailCO26
Captain

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USA
457 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2008 : 16:00:04

I've tried racing with 5, but a J/24 this ain't. We ended up tripping all over each other during tacks/jibes. Granted, that was early on when the boat was new to me/us, but we still race w/ 4 (listed back to front on the rail upwind):

1. Helm/Main trim/Traveler (plus tactics/strategy)
2. Headsail trim/Spin Trim/Guy Trim (guy goes to Pit in heavy air), tactical and strategic input
3. Pit/Sewer - pre-feed/douse spin, pole up/down controls, headsail halyard, vang/outhaul, traffic/marks, general housekeeping/beer b*tch
4. Foredeck - skirt/call wind/traffic up/downwind, jibe pole downwind

For the FD, I'll also toss in "sneer at Helm/Trim when they get caught checking out the other owner's daughters when they're aboard".

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I prefer that the helmsman not tend the mainsheet and traveler.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I work my own mainsheet/traveler for a couple of reasons:
1. Primarily because if I do both that AND drive, it's more of a feel-thing for gusty conditions and rapid response in the Ease/Hike/Trim mode - less reliance on communication.
2. Secondarily, my Trim does both release AND trim, but we also cross-sheet using Lopez blocks so he's already right there. He's busy with the genoa sheets, so it's an easy reach for me to release the trav about the same time the genoa sheet gets released. The only time this is an issue is when I'm driving from the leeward rail, in which case I'll usually just move the trav as I move sides, then clean it up on course. Bonus: this frees up the Pit to grab cold ones mid-tack if he's feeling quick. :)

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I prefer that the foredeck crew not be the tactician, because, when he shouts his advice to the helmsman, half of the competitors can also hear it, and I hate to help my competitors, or alert them to what I'm about to do.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">This concept should be applied to the entire crew at all times. Dont holler out where that next mark is, or that you see wind building way over yonder. Communicate with your crew, but not every boat on the water.

Jim

Edited by - on

Andy_334
Navigator

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USA
206 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2008 : 22:19:19

Boat Positions: 101

Forward of the Mast = Frontier Land
Mast to Traveller = Speed Land
Behind the Traveller = Fantasy Land!

Edited by - on

Andy_334
Navigator

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USA
206 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2008 : 22:21:58

Summary

Upwind:
1.Helm – Drive
2.Main – trim main
3.Trim – trim jib, release during tack, drop jib during rounding
4.Tailer – tail sheet during tack, pre-load high side winch
5.Foredecker – help sail around stays, and skirt.

Downwind:
1.Helm – Drive
2.Pole – pre-feed guy, adjust fore/aft pole position. Human pole during windward takedown.
3.Trim – adjust sail in/out
4.Twing – ease/trim the twing/tweaker. Pull the kite into the cabin during the takedown
5.Foredecker – er…..? Oh, yes. Pole up/down, pre-feed, hoist, collect the jib, gybe pole, provide meteorological commentary, and smart-ass remarks as applicable.

Edited by - on

Andy_334
Navigator

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USA
206 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2008 : 22:30:47

Details

Upwind:
Helm – drives the boat, and provides “encouragement” to the crew.

Main – trims the mainsheet. Many drivers prefer to trim their own main as they feel the have a closer feel for the boat.

Trim – trims the jib and works with the tailer to execute the tacks. Prior to the tack, the trimmer ensures the sheet is free of kinks and will run fairly during the tack. Once the helm calls for the tack, the trimmer releases the jib as is just starts to backwind during the tack. Once the sheet is released, the trimmer will ensure the line runs smoothly, and then switches side to finish grinding the new jib sheet that the tailer has already pulled in. On our boat, the trimmer remains on the low side and constantly trims. He/she is also required to offer disparaging remarks about the helm’s apparent predisposition to pinch (sail too high and screw up the trimmer’s hard work)!

Tailer – works with the trimmer to pull in the jib sheet during the tack. Once the helm calls for the tack, the tailer pulls in the slack on the sheet as the boat turns through the wind. As the trimmer releases, the tailer pulls the sheet in as fast and smoothly as possible. As the tailer pulls the sheet in he/she crosses the boat to the new high side so they can lean backwards while pulling the sheet in. As Mr.Milby suggested, if the helm does the job correctly, the jib will be almost at full trim before the trimmer gets to the handle. After the tack, the trimmer will finish grinding the sail, while the trailer will pre-load the new high side winch with the lazy sheet and the handle.

Foredecker – during the beat, our fordecker does double duty as the taticguesser. He calls the wind, and advises on tactics, including pressure, laylines, and traffic. During the tack he helps the sail around the stays, and then help the foot of the sail over the lifelines when the trimmer calls “skirt”.

Downwind:
Helm – Drives the boat etc.

Pole – trims and eases the pole in coordination with the trimmer. During the set, the pole will pull on the guy to pre-feed the sail to the pole. As the boat turns down, the pole will pull back on the guy to keep it off the stay. During the run, the pole will adjust the fore/aft position of the pole in coordination with the trimmer and helm. During the gybe, the pole will square the pole back as the boat turns down, and hand the guy off to the trimmer, then switch sides, and wait for the new guy from the trimmer.

Trim – keeps the spinnaker inflated. Ease sheet until luff “winks”, then trim. Work with the pole to ensure pole is presented squarely to the wind. Work with the foredecker to ensure the pole is at the correct height. During the gybe the trimmer will ease the sheet as the pole is squared back, then take the guy from the pole. During the gybe, the trimmer will free-fly the kite. After the pole is made, the trimmer will hand the new guy to the pole.

Twing/Pit. Ensure the sheet side twing (or tweaker) is free, and the guy side twing is down on the rail. During the gybe, he/she will release the guy side to 12” off the rail, and pull in the sheet side to 12” off the rail. As the gybe is complete, the new sheet side is released, and the new guy side is pulled in. During high wind conditions, the twings may both be pulled in so as to “choke” or depower the kite.

Foredecker. Traditionally, trimmers have absolutely no idea what the foredeck does. Apparently they are responsible for the pointy end. At the rounding they attached the pole to the mast at the correct height. Pull the outboard end of the pole up using the topping lift. Pull on the downhaul to keep the pole down, pre-feed the guy, hoist the kite when required, and then collect the jib as it comes down. During the run, our foredecker keeps the trimmer apprised of the wind coming down: Lull, shadow, puff, big puff, or oh sh*t.

Much of this information depends how your boat is rigged. On the boat mentioned above, the main and jib halyards run to the cockpit. The spin halyard is at the mast, and the downhaul and pole topping lift are on the foredeck.

Above all, consistent crew and plenty of practice will help build confidence, boat speed, and results.

Good luck.

Edited by - on

Ericson33
Admiral

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USA
892 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2008 : 23:38:43

I will add my own observations to this as I have been on the Capri for 2 years playing all positions.

Helm: The person at the helm does allot more than driving the boat. First the helm really should just steer, but the size of this boat makes this job just too cramped for more people. Helm is watching traffic as well as fordeck at the start. I sail close to the line at the start sailing from a reach into close hauled. We race with 15 other boats so the line is tight at times and gets very crowded. Helm is counting on information from fordeck about boats and if he is clear. Trim is counting down the time to start, and listening back from helm to ease or trim for speed at the gun. Helm is adjusting the sheet to control the speed as well, and at a moments notice helm may have the trim dump the genoa. Helm is adjusting the traveler if the wind is shifting or the wind is puffy. Helm is adjusting the backstay as well to flatten the main.

After the start helm needs to find a clear lane to the rumbline. If you dont have clear air tack and get into clean air. Most time you wil find yourself following the leader, helm needs to get your head out of the boat look ahead and sail the boat. If the wind is puffy I find myself playing the travler in the puffs. this allows me to keep the main trim in place and play the travler to keep the boat flat in the puffs. Trim at this time may find themselves easing the genoa in the puffs also and trimming back for speed. Fordeck is checking the spinnaker gear and getting ready for the mark rounding or to skirt the genoa in a tack. During a tack if the cunningham needs adjustment or the outhaul needs to be tightened its god for the trim to do this asap as the load on the main gets dam hard to adjust loaded up. If it is loaded, ease the main sheet and have the trim adjust the control line. be sure to play the lifts to your advantage.

Getting ready for the mark: Helm checks the lane to be clear and port tack boats, trim is watching the wind direction and making sure you wil not have to gibe the boat right after the mark. Most RC make sure to set the corse up so you have a good tack after the mark, but the wind shifts all the time. Fordeck is setting the pole and at the mark the trim eases the genoa, sets the boomvang, outhaul off, cunningham off. Helm eases the main, adjust the backstay off, turn slow at the mark, take your time and round the mark nice and smooth.

Mark made, fordeck raises the spinnaker under the genoa as the trim pulls the spinnaker around the forstay to the pole, spinnaker is up, fordeck drops the genoa halyard as the trim is adjusting the guy to squares the pole to the wind and sheets the spinnaker to fill. Fordeck is clening the genoa on deck and has is ready for the next mark rounding. fordeck comes to rest at the cabin top and takes guy, as the trim adjust the spinnaker sheet, I watch the top edge of the spinnaker and when it starts to curl in I adjust the sheet, then ease to fill. Helm is watching the wind direction and mark direction.

Gybe- Helm calls for gybe, starts t head down as the chute is squared to the wind, downhaul off, topping lift eased as pole is tripped off run across the deck, keeping the genoa sheets ontop of the pole, and sets the new guy and makes the pole to the mast. The spinner can cause all kinds of trouble at this point, I have drug the spinnaker under the keel, arounf the forstay, dragging for shrimp ect. The best thing to remember as helm is to keep cool and keep the boom to one side of the boat. in lighter air we have the trim stand at the mast base holding the boom to one side, If you broach be sure trim knows one job and only one job, release the boomvang. after the gybe fordeck gets the genoa set in the grove, and makes sure the genoa sheets did not fall under the pole.

Downwind Mark, Fordeck raises the genoa halyard and blows the spinnaker halyard keeping a small amount of tension on the halyard as the trim pulls the spinnaker back into the cabin hatch into the bag. we launch from the companionway. as trim gets the spinnaker into the bag he will blow the topping lift, as the fordeck cleans up the pole and stores onto the deck.

We use three on the boat, we have used two, we have to launch from the pulpit, but it can be done. I have been out only a couple of times this year so I have just been running thru this from memory and scars. If you are between races and you want to drag behind the boat between races, be sure not to grab the backstay in a puff, its amazing how fast the stainless wire gets tightened. Or just wear gloves.........

good luck

Edited by - on

joearcht
Navigator

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USA
241 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2008 : 08:16:27

Spectacular discussion guys! I printed out copies to pass out on the boat today. I'm sure it will generate lots of discussion.

Edited by - on

Andy_334
Navigator

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USA
206 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2008 : 08:51:32

Great additional commentary Chris. Having the main trimmer or helm playing the main sheet and traveller is as important as having the trimmer play the jib sheets. As others have said, the wind is constantly shifting, and so should your trim.

As the crew gains confidence and experience, the helm and tacticguesser is able to spend more time looking outside of the boat at the big picture. The mid-boat (trimmer and pit) should keep focused on keeping the boat fast.

To anybody going sailing this weekend, have fun out there!

Edited by - on

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