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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Rusty Keel

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James Simmons
1st Mate

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USA
41 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/20/2008 : 05:05:32

I am in the process of buying a C 25 that has been neglected for some time. I had it hauled and the bottom cleaned to see what condition it was in. As I expected it hadn't seen bottom paint for some time. The blisters (somewhere around 20 or so, could be more) were all small and less than the diameter of a dime. Some were 'weeping' and others not. The keel had what I would describe as 'nodules', I assumeto be of rust, along the bottom edge. I also noticed protrusions on the side of the keel as well which could be pack rust.

I would appreciate any comments about how serious, or not serious, the condition of the bottom is as I try to make a decision on whether or not to buy the boat.

Thanks!

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3494 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2008 : 05:44:22

Others will have to chime in with their real life experience w/Catalina keels but first, it may be best if you provide details as to what year ond model keel you have on your Catalina - full keel, WK or Centerboard keel.

Generally, if you have isolated areas of rust, etc I would not be all that concerned since those areas can be treated. I have a cast iron winged keel and it has what I will characterize as battle scars but these areas do not have any rust.

The only experience I have had with gross and continual battles with rust was on a 16' Luger sailboat which I used on the south shore of Long Island back.....eons ago. It had a painted "steel" centerboard and this thing was always covered with small barnacles and heeps of rust, rust flakes, etc. No matter what I tried, that thing was always a disaster at the end of a season.

Rust flakes oftentimes seem worse than they are since it oftentimes turns out to be minimal loss from the material body. The issue becomes how to arrest it in the areas where it has occurred and keep it from spreading once it has taken hold. Those experiences w/catalina keels similar to yours will have to come from others since I have had not that concern. However, the major thing I would think regarding your inspection besides what you have reported is if there are any signs of separation or deterioration at the keel/hull joint. That is the major thing to be checking. Also check the bilge for the fixed and winged keel bolting to see if there are any signs of deterioration. If the bolts are shiny and that is a good sign but sometimes a close inspection is necessary since that area may have been periodically cleaned.

As far as the blisters. if you have about 20 or so samll dime size that is not so bad on boats as old as ours. I have about same on my '89. Some turned out to be paint blisters and I had about 4-5 of the real blisters treated but it was a minor deal - basically sanded/opened and then rebuilt and prepped with spot barrier paint - was not going for the whole hull for just these few blisters. I have kept an eye on the blister thing when I have my boat pulled for annual pressure washing (since I keep my boat in the water all year) and there has not been any further growth/deterioration. So. hopefully, yours will turn out to be a minor event as well.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2008 : 07:22:00

My 2 cents would be subject to a few more details... price, saltwater or fresh? swing keel 0r fixed? age? trailer or cradle?

Here is why. A saltwater boat that has been neglected will not have been cleaned after use and the salt will speed up failures in th erigging. While yo umay see the problems in the hull, the rigging failures may be harder to see, and fail suddenly causing a dangerous situation.

A swing keel that has been neglected will need the swing keel mechanism re-worked which is a labour intensive task (I have never done it since I have a fixed keel, but from what I understand it is not for the feint of heart).

Age, and duration of neglect. A boat that has been neglected for 20 years is better than a boat that has been neglected for 30 years. Thats a no brainer. But there are also systems and layout changes that happened over the production cycle of the boats. I might pay more for newer boat with a few extra features if th eneglect was for a short duration and I felt I could handle the repairs.

Trailer vs cradle - I would (today) buy a neglected boat for its trailer it the deal was sweet enough. The reason? I can use parts as backups, recycle the keel to recoup the cost of the boat, and haul the glass to the dump (on the trailer ??) and use the trailer for my good boat. I am thinking of the $500 take this piece of crap off my hands boat here.

When we were shopping I came across a neglected Hinterhoeller 28 for $2500. I thought the boat could be restored to something worth owning, and the owner was throwing in all kinds of extras. Once I crunched the numbers though, simply replacing the outboard and electronics made the boat more expensive than the boat I have now. The HR28 was also on a cradle in Ottawa and transporting it to Toronto would have been pricey.

Edited by - on

James Simmons
1st Mate

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USA
41 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2008 : 08:31:59

Thanks for the helpful responses.

The boat is a 1981 model with a (cast iron?) fixed fin keel. The area between the keel and the hull looks good: Keel bolts in the bilge are somewhat rusty but don't seem to be deteriorated to any great extent. (Should they be coated or treated in some way?) The boat has been, as far as I know, in fresh water. It could have been in salt water but that would have been years ago. The keel rust is mainly concentrated along the bottom edges , although the only way to really tell would be to grind off all of the remaining paint and inspect the rest of it. I did notice some 'bulges' in the paint along the side of the keel about the diameter of a silver dollar and protruding out 1/8 inch or so. All of these areas are tightly adhering with no flaking. I assume they will have to be ground down at some point.

I don't know how long it was neglected but would guess several years. Unfortunately the windows were leaking badly and the interior stayed wet for quite a while. I think I finally have the cushions aired out and cleaned up enough to put them back, but only after the windows are fixed. (If I buy the boat all windows will have to be re-sealed).

I really like the Catalina 25 and am planning on purchasing one. (Maybe this one!)

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2008 : 08:43:45

Time for my [url="http://www.sealakeyachts.com/service/blisters.html"]favorite article about blisters [/url] again.

Larry, are you sure your keel isn't lead? I thought it was by then.

Edited by - John Russell on 08/20/2008 08:44:41

James Simmons
1st Mate

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USA
41 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2008 : 08:52:15

Great article! I feel better about the blisters now although I am still concerned about the keel. If it is cast iron I assume at some point it must be prepped and painted with an epoxy barrier coat before the A/F is applied.

I am curious as to the inteface of the keel to the bottom of the boat. I know it is bolted on but was it 'bedded in ' in some way? (I didn't see any problems here: All was smooth and continuous).

Edited by - on

James Simmons
1st Mate

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USA
41 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2008 : 09:18:25

If the keel is lead then the 'rust nodules' I noticed along the bottom edge could be damage caused by grounding or while loading on a trailer.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2008 : 09:29:36

James, it would be helpful to know what year boat, keel type, etc. You may very well be looking at an iron keel and Larry's comments about the rust would be spot on. Throw a magnet at it and see if it sticks.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5909 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2008 : 10:05:34

A 1981 C25 fin keel is cast iron. Rust or blisters on the keel are not generally a serious concern, but it takes some work to deal with them.

The hull blisters that you describe are small enough that they should also not be a serious concern, but they also require some work to remedy them.

If you have it hauled, and cover it well at the end of this season, and lightly grind the "skin" off the blisters with a sander so that they dry out during the winter, then the blisters should be dry enough to repair next spring. After you grind off each blister, mark it so you can find it and repair it in the spring.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4316 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2008 : 10:34:55

James,

Welcome to the forum! What part of Houston do you live in. I live in Missouri City but my boat is in Kemah.

Where is the boat in question?

Depending on how things fall into place later this week I might be able to take a look at the boat this weekend if you want another set of eyes to look it over.

Edited by - GaryB on 08/20/2008 10:35:54

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3494 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2008 : 13:03:30

I think my comments were okay except....yeah I think my wing keel is made out of Lead. That info seems to have vacated one of my brain cells...Now I will have to recheck that info but believe it is Lead.

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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4316 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2008 : 16:24:21

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by OLarryR
 I think my comments were okay except....yeah I think my wing keel is made out of Lead. That info seems to have vacated one of my brain cells...Now I will have to recheck that info but believe it is Lead.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Larry,

Mine's lead so I'm sure yours is too.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3494 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2008 : 23:26:40

Maybe the "Lead" effected my brain cells.

Edited by - on

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