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 Rudder hinge mounts		  New Topic  Topic Locked
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hillerji
1st Mate

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USA
37 Posts
Initially Posted - 08/25/2008 :  07:08:29  Show Profile
On my (new to me) '82 C25 I started noticing a hitch in the feel of the tiller and on closer inspection discovered that one of the screws on the lower rudder mount was about to drop out. I attempted to tighten but it has either stripped or dropped out of its backer nut, plate etc. I haven't been able to fully investigate it after getting back to the mooring. Can anyone shed some light on what to expect as far as how this is assembled on the stern? Any sage advice would be greatly appreciated.

Jon
Jon

'Arabesque'
#2479
1982 SR/FK
Thames Yacht Club
New London Ct.
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pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts
Response Posted - 08/25/2008 :  07:32:06  Show Profile
You can change a lower gudgeon in the water. You may need three people, one outside putting the gudgeon on, one inside tightening the nuts, and one on the bow to counter the weight aft of the guy doing the tightening. The bow guy may be optional. The original gudgeon was bolted into an embedded brass plate. You will need to remove the old one, drill out the old holes and go all the way through, then replace with the new gudgeon and hardware from catalinadirect.com
http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=301
http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_ID=83
you can probably use your old gudgeon as a backing plate. I had to grind down the surface inside to get mine flat.
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hillerji
1st Mate

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USA
37 Posts
Response Posted - 08/25/2008 :  08:55:57  Show Profile
Frank,

Thank you very much for the pix and the link, I really do appreciate it. I will let you know how the repair goes.

Regards,

Jon
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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts
Response Posted - 08/25/2008 :  09:35:59  Show Profile
Jon... The gudgeons are bolted to threaded bronze plates that are partially embedded in the fiberglass inside the transom. Some people have simply drilled through the bronze and used slightly longer bolts, nuts and washers to make the gudgeon more secure. Whether grinding is necessary depends on what you see, but this way the bronze plate is still a "backer" and you're not relying on just the threads in the relatively soft metal. When you do this, use polysulfide caulk around the bolts, and give a final tightening to the nuts after the caulk has fully cured.

Replacing the gudgeons is a separate issue, based on wear in the holes allowing the pintles to fit sloppily. If you feel shimmying in the tiller, new gudgeons can alleviate some of that. (A newer-style balanced rudder eliminated <i>all</i> of it for me.) I found that CD's "heavy-duty" gudgeons were very hard to mount so that they lined up perfectly in column, and concluded they were overkill anyway--the rudder does not impose significant downward force on the gudgeons. But the newer gudgeons with nylon bushings might be an improvement.
Edited by - Dave Bristle on 08/25/2008 09:38:54
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hillerji
1st Mate

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USA
37 Posts
Response Posted - 08/25/2008 :  10:29:18  Show Profile
Dave,

Thanks very much esp from a neighbor. I will take this all into consideration when I get into it next time on the boat. I am at TYC in the Thames.

Jon
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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts
Response Posted - 08/28/2008 :  23:40:59  Show Profile
The gussets also add strength in shearing and torque, but I agree that it probably is overkill. I made the upgrade for the bushings, and the low friction and no slop feel was really worthwhile.
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DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts
Response Posted - 08/29/2008 :  13:35:59  Show Profile  Visit DaveR's Homepage
I hate the slop feel!!
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skrenz
Captain

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USA
351 Posts
Response Posted - 09/03/2008 :  11:05:56  Show Profile
Make sure when you mount the new gudgeon you seal it well with 4200 or something sealant.
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dlewis812
Deckhand

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USA
14 Posts
Response Posted - 09/05/2008 :  13:15:26  Show Profile
my bottom gudgeon broke off while on a sail (fun). have received the new one from catalina direct. just want to make sure am installing properly. only came with the screws (no back plate or anything). read a little bit here but just want to be very clear best way to install.

thanks
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pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts
Response Posted - 09/05/2008 :  13:52:20  Show Profile
Those of us who install backing plates make them ourselves. I suggested using the old gudgeon as a backing plate, I have not tried it but should work.
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hillerji
1st Mate

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USA
37 Posts
Response Posted - 10/03/2008 :  21:59:35  Show Profile

Dave, Frank et. al..

I finally initiated a full repair on these lower gudgeon bolts. After some 'nice' grinding I uncovered the bolts and backing (bronze)plate. I replaced the bolts with the original size which is 1/4-20 but I'm thinking some of the problem may stem from the fact that the gudgeons on the boat are the 'gussetted' style and their holes are more like 5/16 so I think a winter 'on the hard' repair may call for the size upgrade. Meantime the 1/4-20's went in and even rethreaded in the bronze plate and than I put elastic stop nuts on to back it even more. Does this sound copastetic to the wise sailing masters out there? This site is a great resource to this 'newbie'. Thanks greatly.

JH
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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts
Response Posted - 10/03/2008 :  22:20:38  Show Profile
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by hillerji</i>
<br />
I put elastic stop nuts on to back it even more. Does this sound copastetic to the wise sailing masters out there?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I assume you mean "nylock" nuts (with nylon inserts to perform the locking function)... That's the ticket. The bronze plates should be adequate backers, but are dubious as the only things to thread into.
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Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.