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Newbee question on using winches

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skrenz
Captain

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USA
351 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/03/2008 : 14:58:34

When using a winch that is not self tailing, what is the proper way for one person to act as their own tailer both cranking the winch and pulling in the line at the same time. If you are right handed, do you crank with your right hand and hold the end of the line with your left? Pull across your body? Wrap the line around your leg

What do you do if you need both hands to crank on the winch handle? Details would be nice.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 09/03/2008 : 15:45:35

After hauling in the slack with my hands, I crank with one hand and tail with the other. If forces are such that it is too hard to winch with one hand, I simply come up a little and let the genoa luff which takes tension off the genoa sheet. After tensioning, I then fall back on my desired course.

Edited by - dlucier on 09/03/2008 15:46:31

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 09/03/2008 : 15:46:29

I winch with my right and tail with my left. I don't turn the winch handle in full 360 degree rotations but take about 45 degrees at a time. There is no way to use 2 hands on the winch.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5908 Posts

Response Posted - 09/06/2008 : 15:21:29

The best way to tack a boat is for the winch tailer and the helmsman to coordinate their efforts. If the helmsman stops turning the boat when the genoa is streaming along the leeward rail, then the sail won't be loaded with wind, and the sheet likewise won't be loaded, and the tailer can pull in the sheet by hand, without having to use the winch handle. After the tailer has the sheet pulled in as much as possible, then the helmsman should bear off a few degrees and load up the sail. Then the tailer only has to use the winch handle to fine-trim the sail for the new course.

If you're singlehanding, then you have to figure out how to stop the turn at the appropriate point while steering with your knee (or whatever other appendage you're using to steer the boat).

Edited by - Steve Milby on 09/06/2008 15:43:06

clayC
Navigator

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USA
207 Posts

Response Posted - 09/09/2008 : 13:26:05

When single handing, I have tossed a quick figure 8 loop in the halyard and tailed with my foot

Clay C

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 09/09/2008 : 13:52:14

Oh dear.
Tailing occurs when a grinder is using a winch handle to operate the winch. If there is no winch handle involved you are simply hauling on the line. When a winch is properly wrapped it requires effortless tailing, all you are doing it moving the line away from the winch at the same pace that new line is entering the winch. For many conditions this is two wraps and in higher wind it is three wraps. The tailing requires line to be pulled away from the winch so the wraps maintain full contact with the winch and the proper friction is engaged.
I tend to crank with my left arm and tail with my right hand. This is mostly because the winches are wrapped clockwise and the tail is leaving the winch drum on the right side as I address the winch. I always place cleats where the tail will naturally fall into the cleat. Here you see a clam cleat angled so that when single handing I can HAUL the sheet on the winch and simply lay it into the clam. The cam cleat is at an angle where crew will want it whether they are grinding or hauling.

this is the clam placement on my '89.

Edited by - pastmember on 09/09/2008 13:53:36

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5908 Posts

Response Posted - 09/09/2008 : 15:51:35

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by skrenz
 What do you do if you need both hands to crank on the winch handle? Details would be nice.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
If you need both hands to grind the winch, then you need another crew member or two-speed winches (which provide more mechanical advantage), or a self-tailing winch, or "Winchers". Obviously, you can't steer the boat with your leg, grind the winch with two hands, and tail with your third hand.

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 09/09/2008 : 17:25:52

All good advice.
My suggestion, is that you don't over think this. Its one of those things that you need learn 'hands on'
Know and understand what these guys are telling you, don't worry about it, just go out and do it. this is one of the joys of learning to sail...it then becomes one of the joys of sailing.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3477 Posts

Response Posted - 09/09/2008 : 19:48:34

I never use the winch handle. I put a turn or two on the winch and haul away. A friend of mine that oftentimes crews on racing nights came on my boat once and he did make use of the winch handle. But I have the habit of never using it mainly since I go single-handed sailing and find it easier to not use the handle. If I find it hard to pull on the sheet (mainly when I was not quick enough when tacking, I just head into the wind a bit and then take up the remaining slack.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2008 : 09:30:37

Another option for single handling:

Loop the rope once around the "proper" wince, then run it across the cockpit and loop it once around the opposite winch. Now you can hold the end of the sheet to tail, but trim by using your foot to push on the line going across the cockpit. Its kind of like doing leg presses at the gym.

In my last race I found myself trimming the genoa with my foot, tailing with my teeth, trimming the main with my hand, and steering with my free hand. It was a great race - finished third.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2008 : 10:54:38

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector
 ...I found myself trimming the genoa with my foot, tailing with my teeth, trimming the main with my hand, and steering with my free hand...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">PICTURES!

Edited by - on

Merrick
Navigator

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USA
192 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2008 : 19:03:38

I have a dumb question. It seems to me my winches on previous boats made a ratcheting sound. My c25 winches turn freely with no sound. (clockwise only) Is this normal or is something maybe gunked up inside?

Edited by - on

Sryth
Deckhand

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USA
22 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2008 : 19:23:15

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector
 Another option for single handling:
Loop the rope once around the "proper" wince, then run it across the cockpit and loop it once around the opposite winch. Now you can hold the end of the sheet to tail, but trim by using your foot to push on the line going across the cockpit. Its kind of like doing leg presses at the gym.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Here I thought I was the only one who did this

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stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2008 : 20:21:47

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">My c25 winches turn freely with no sound. (clockwise only) Is this normal or is something maybe gunked up inside?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
If you're not hearing your winch 'ratchet' then you have a problem. You can buy parts or repair kits from CD and WM and etc.

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2008 : 22:50:51

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">If you're not hearing your winch 'ratchet' then you have a problem. You can buy parts or repair kits from CD and WM and etc.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Are you sure of that? I have Australian Barlow winches which were original equipment on my 78. They make no sound when spinning clockwise and will not release counter-clockwise. That appears to be their normal state of operation.

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2008 : 23:08:54

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Are you sure of that?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I assumed, that since our boats are of a similar vintage, that he would have the same winches as I do.

Merrick - what kind of winches do you have?

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Australian Barlow winches which were original equipment on my 78<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Were these standard on many other C25's? I've never heard of them.

I had one that stopped ratcheting - then it was silent, then it was grinding small pieces of metal, then I was in winch repair mode.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2008 : 00:08:42

Lots of winches make no sound. I do think it is a function of grease and pawl spring tension rather than pawl or tooth wear. Winches should be service occasionally anyway so taking them apart is trivial, especially winches like those on a Catalina 25. So if you are wondering then take'm apart and wipe em down.

Edited by - on

Merrick
Navigator

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USA
192 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2008 : 20:07:34

I was thinking mine were Lewmars, but not sure. I will check out this weekend. Would be no surprise if just needed maintenance as I don't think this boat had much done in last few years. But we are slowly getting her back in shape.

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stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 09/25/2008 : 16:34:43

Mine are lewmars - which was my reason for extending my own personal been there done that repair advice. No sound is a bad sound for 1981 vintage lewmar winches.

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2008 : 11:02:24

A fellow sailor at my marina with the same Lewmar 7's I had, asked me if I knew why his winches didn't click or sometimes wouldn't ratchet. I showed him how to remove the drum and once we pulled it off, we discovered the PO had slathered the pawls and everything with a nice glob of thick axle grease. So much so that sometimes the pawls would stick open thereby not engaging the teeth on the base. Once he cleaned the winch and used the proper lubricant, everything worked like new.

Edited by - on

Merrick
Navigator

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USA
192 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2008 : 20:41:20

I learned a couple things this weekend. I do have the lewmar single speed winches that I imagine were original equipment. Figured out that 1)these winches are easy to disassemble and 2) there is not much to them. A little cleaning of the old gunked up grease, relube and we are clicking again - literally. I have found that this old boat had lots of hardware that just needed a good cleaning and lube. Or a re-seal and tighten up It's been fun to get it working again and learn the boat part by part as you go.

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