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Unstepping the mast (again)

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5418 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/14/2008 : 22:18:40

In a number of past articles, the merits of using a special rig made of wood, line and wire to allow a single person to lower the mast using the mainsheet have been discussed and debated.

While I admire those who can so elegantly build a wooden structure using cables and turnbuckles, and hold the whole thing together, there's something a little Rube Goldberg-esque [I'm dating myself!] about this contraption.

And my concern is that I'll have it all perfectly balanced and set up, and the next thing you know, the whole thing gives way and I'm covered in a mess of shrouds, the tabernacle is bent beyond repair and there's a hole in the boat.

So, again I wonder, if you have three able-bodied people, two, each holding a shroud and the other one with the sheet, is there a way to unstep the mast foreward while the boat is in the water?

Now, add to that the fact that there is a jib furler on the forestay. This would have to be removed first I'd imagine. How on earth do you take that apart?

I welcome all advice.

Rube-who? Google him.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 09/14/2008 : 22:59:18

I made an A-Frame out of metal conduit. The Admiral and I used it half a dozen times successfully.

then we realized that we don't need an A-frame and the two of us raise and lower with a shoulder to the mast.We walk it forward, or walk it down.
We use two aids, a mast crutch in the gudgeons and an anchor line that we attach to the forestay, run via a block attached to the bow roller, then run the line back to the cockpt via a cabin top clutch. The Admiral operates the clutch and makes sure the lines and rigging don't get tangled. I apply the shoulder. My mast is 60LBs, I weigh 175 LBs.
Three people would make this job a breeze. The only thing you really need to know is your rigging. Know which shrouds to disconnect and which ones to lossen.
I lowered my mast this summer while the boat was at the dock, in order to repair my bent wind vane.

If you really need a mechanical device, built an A-Frame. I built mine from the schematic in the Technical Tips section. There are lots of good pictures and topics available via 'SEARCH'. You don't need to build the single handing device if you have able bodied help available.
since we're showing our age: Think Busby Berkeley movie : C'mon kids, lets put on a show

Edited by - on

Bruce Baker
Captain

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USA
402 Posts

Response Posted - 09/15/2008 : 08:00:39

I can't speak to the lowering part--my broken mast just kind of fell to the deck, but I can say that three men can raise a new mast by brute force with no fancy hardware required.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 09/15/2008 : 09:12:52

"three able-bodied people, two, each holding a shroud and the other one with the sheet"

Two reasonably fit adult males can simply 'manhandle' the mast down. With three it's really easy. Recommend taking it down aft... that's the way the hinge point on the mast step is designed to go.

Make sure you have a crutch to hold the top end of the mast up... otherwise it will lay (like a teeter-totter) on the cabin top and put a lot of stress on the mast base in a direction it's not designed to take (pulling upward).

>"jib furler on the forestay. This would have to be removed first I'd imagine How on earth do you take that apart?"

Which design you have? Harken? Shaefer, CDI?

Edited by - on

josgood
1st Mate

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USA
57 Posts

Response Posted - 09/15/2008 : 09:50:28

we did it recently in the water on a friends C-25
we backed it into the slip. two people at the base and two as the mast as it came down. it took minutes and no real struggle. it probably could be done with 3... but I would wait for 4 people. we added a haylyard and it went back up as smooth as melted gold in a couple minutes. the whole thing took 15 minutes...
hope that helps.
John

Edited by - on

Scumbucket
1st Mate

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USA
53 Posts

Response Posted - 09/15/2008 : 13:14:56

I build the A-Frame and now I can raise and lower the mast solo as the Admiral has a bad back and just can not help. There is another thread in the forums with a link on how to with a movie.

If I had help I would not need the A-Frame.

Edited by - on

dave holtgrave
Captain

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USA
427 Posts

Response Posted - 09/15/2008 : 19:19:36

i use the wood "a" frame too.
iLL take it anyday to waiting for help.
i also have a harken rigid furler and have no problems.

i don't like to rely on people when we are all taking our boats down.

dave holtgrave
5722 sk/tr
sailing carlyle lake ion southern illinois
u

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5418 Posts

Response Posted - 09/15/2008 : 20:51:59

OK - so I like the crutch part a lot. I used to have one on my 16 foot daysailor (it was on a trailer, so I did more stepping than Fred Astaire!)

What height above the gudgeons should the crutch be at? At tabernacle height or slightly above??

My daysailor crutch put a 15% incline from the tabernacle to the crutch (sloping up toward the rear)

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/15/2008 : 20:57:01

Bruce, I never personally lowered Passage's mast, but I can offer the a couple of observations. First, your Hood furler extrusion is rather complicated to remove and then put back on the forestay--it can be done with a messenger line, but it's not simply a hollow tube. I wouldn't remove it unless absolutely necessary. (My rigger got the new forestay into it using the old stay as a messenger.)

Second, I'd be concerned that if you lower the mast forward, there is no way to support it at the bow such that there won't be more weight forward of the support than aft of it--causing the mast to pull up on the step and potentially end up in the drink.

From other masts I've lowered (without frames), I'd suggest going aft with enough helpers that at least one person can be on the cabintop and two in the cockpit. You don't want to be climbing down from the cabintop just as you reach the point of maximum weight and unwieldiness. Also be aware that if you use a halyard or forestay at the bow to help lower it, the closer the mast and halyard get to being parallel as the mast comes down, the less the halyward is able to hold the mast up. And as mentioned, a crutch at the transom is critical to hold it up off the companionway hatch.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 09/15/2008 21:05:44

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/15/2008 : 21:02:01

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Voyager
 What height above the gudgeons should the crutch be at?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">At least high enough that the mast won't contact the companionway hatch before it settles on the crutch. You can figure that out by sight.

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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 09/15/2008 : 22:43:17

Bruce, you didn't say if your boat is a std rig or tall rig. The tall rig mast is 2 ft longer and thicker-walled, so it is much heavier. I suggest it will take at least 3 people to bring it down safely, as well as an A-frame or gin pole to give some mechanical advantage. The mast crutch I built, before buying a Mast-up device, extends 8 ft from the cockpit floor, and has a bow roller at the top for the mast to rest upon. It's tall enough to keep the angle good, as well as giving you some up-angle to start with when raising the mast back up. I would also remove the headsail from the furler before bringing it down to eliminate that extra weight. I've read where others have tied the furler drum to the lifeline to keep it ftom going overboard.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 09/16/2008 : 00:20:25

I would suggest that the crutch be as high as you can lift the mast to minimize the final load on lowering or initial load on raising.

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 09/16/2008 : 09:59:29

The crutch keeps the mast at a safe angle above the deck when lowered, but more importantly, the crutch reduces the force required to begin to raise the mast. This makes some difference in the effort you expend singlehanded when using an A-frame, but it is less critical with 3 or 4 deck hands. With helpers you could just place a 2x4 across the pushpit to rest the mast on. I built an 8' crutch to rest on the pintles, with a roller on top, and dropped and raised the mast singlehanded.

To keep your turnbuckles straight, when dropping the mast singlehanded, I would recommend taping a rag or towel around each one. Saves time, since you can't strain them sideways, and have to stop lowering and check the turnbuckles before any shroud gets close to bending and ruining one. Once again, with 3 or 4 crew, it's simpler.

Most would encourage removal of the furler. I don't have that problem.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/16/2008 : 10:47:11

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dmpilc
 Bruce, you didn't say if your boat is a std rig or tall rig.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">It was standard when I owned Passage...

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5418 Posts

Response Posted - 09/16/2008 : 23:10:58

Yes Dave is correct, it is a standard rig. Placing the crutch at 8 feet should not be a problem. Determining the sequence of loosening and releasing shrouds will take some figuring out. Removing the furler sounds like it could be pretty complicated.

The reasons I want to unstep the mast include:
1. I want to rewire the VHF antenna, the anchor light and bow light
2. I need to replace the bow light and socket/fixture
3. I want to re-wrap/tape the spreaders and check for frays
4. I want to check the swaged ends of the cables for corrosion or meathooks
5. I'd like to add a set of downlights just under the spreaders
6. I want to realign the windex / wind vane

I could do all these things using a bosun's chair, or most of them using a 20' ladder, except items 1 and 6, but I don't want to be swinging around in the breeze at 200#.

Somehow 200# at 30 feet seems to have a greater moment than 1700# at 2 feet. I'm certain my math is off a little, but not enough for complete security.

Any suggestions?

Edited by - on

sweetcraft
Admiral

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USA
816 Posts

Response Posted - 09/17/2008 : 00:51:54

I still use the line bridle and the gin pole. I do use the forestay but the halyard works. The mast is lowered aft as I would have too much weight to handle going forward. The mast crutch is used with enough height to keep the mast off of the cabin top and easy lift off the crutch to the stern pulpit. Has anyone used lines to steady the mast? I can still raise and lower the tall rig mast by myself but it is safer with two. My design is so I can have all the rigging on board for lowering the mast at any dock for repair and adjustment and when I forget the wind indicator or an antenna. My mainsheet line and blocks are long enough that with a partner it could use the winch for effort. Lots of good help and keeping the boat steady during the lowering or lifting is good. I'd help if I could get there .

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/17/2008 : 09:13:54

Bruce: By "bow light" I presume you mean the "steaming light" on the front of the mast (to be on when you're under power). There's a nice option of a combination steaming light and deck light (independent lights in one fixture) that makes for a simpler installation with no wires on the spreaders. Of course, if you want stage lighting on your foredeck, that probably won't do it.

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 09/17/2008 : 09:18:10

"Determining the sequence of loosening and releasing shrouds will take some figuring out."

Use a Sharpie to mark the threads where they enter the turnbuckle before you loosen them... makes it easy to get your rig back 'where it was'.

Prior to lowering you can remove all shrouds except for the aft lowers and the forestay. I do this and secure the unnecessary stays 'out of the way' to prevent tangles, trips and snarls.

When lowering/raising the mast I tie off another line to the shackle end of the jib halyard and run it through the pulpit... then back to a coaming winch. Tighten it a bit at the winch, then remove the forestay and belay that line around the winch to help control lowering of the mast. For raising the mast the process is reversed.

With a couple able bodies it's a piece of cake.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/17/2008 : 10:32:49

I'm also thinking you'll want one body to handle the furler as the mast goes back--just to keep it fairly straight and prevent the drum from falling overboard or catching on something. After you've released the mast base from the step, you can tie the furler to the mast along with a stick to support the drum, since the furler is longer than the mast. And remember that as you're belaying the mast as (the other) Bruce describes, at some point the halyard will have virtually no purchase. That's when a few more hands in the cockpit will be important.

After you've done it once, you'll be able to downsize your crew the next times as you choose.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 09/17/2008 10:36:57

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