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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/17/2008 : 15:07:43

One thing I would like to improve on is our ablity to get the mast up and all rigging established when we trailer to a cruising area. Do any of you have tips to share? I am especially interested in ways to speed up getting the stays and shrouds in tune.

On our recent trip it took about two hours at each end to get ready to sail and then ready to trailer again. Not awful but less time would be better.

We cannot direct the winds but we can adjust our sails.

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 09/17/2008 : 16:14:16

I now do it between 1 and 1.5 hours. I'm faster becaue I do less, if not any mistakes, so only do things once. I leave the forestay, backstay and shrouds attached to the mast and pre-tensioned. I use velcro strips and bungee cord to attach most things, a real time saver. Once the mast is up, it's up to the boom and rudder and that's pretty much it, now ready to launch. In connclusion:

1. Do things only once (with experience)
2. Velcro.
3. Keep wires attached to mast.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 09/17/2008 : 16:38:37

Randy,
Rita & I have a checklist that we work through to try to minimize trips up & down the ladder, doing the same thing more than once as Steve pointed out, etc. We still take about two hours to rig, but we also never try to rush it. When we try to go fast, we forget things like the wind bird and if it's the end of a day sail, our temperaments are challenged. I also leave my rig pre-tensioned, the mast seems to go up & down OK like this, so all I have to do is tighten down the forestay after it's attached. Of course all of that may change with the new settings I've got on my rig. My friend Chris & I slacked my rig off completely & started from scratch a couple of weeks ago, and brought everything up to tension using a gauge instead of guessing. I have to say the boat points better than it ever has since we've owned it, but I don't want to drift off topic.

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 09/17/2008 : 16:47:52

Couple things that work for me.

Once I have the mast lowing gear set, IE. baby stays, front strap, etc.

I loosen the front forestay turnbuckle, walk to the stern and pull the pin out of one of the back stay legs. This allows the front forestay pin to easily come out.

I coil up all the shrouds and back stay. Using plastic zip ties, I zip tie the shrouds to the lifelines near the spreaders and zip tie the back stay to the aft mast support.

When its time to raise the mast, I use a pair of cutters and snip the zip ties.

Raise the mast, put the forestay pin in. Then re-attach the back stay leg.

Then tighen the forestay turnbuckle to marks that I previously marked on the turnbuckle. Then everything is pretty much in tune.

Edited by - on

welshoff
Captain

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USA
253 Posts

Response Posted - 09/17/2008 : 18:14:47

Here is my procedure:

I use a plasitc storage container to keep all mast raising equipment and trailering equipment in one place. Then I just have to put it on the boat. It holds all the furling supports, bungie cords, baby stays, winching straps, ect. The furler support at the furling drum is too long to fit in the box. Basically I have two items to put on the boat to make the procedure work. Don't like to run up and down the ladder.

Prep boat while floating at slip - before putting boat on trailer:
1) take boom off mast and store in cabin (I leave sail and sail cover on the boom).
2) take off head sail and furling line.
3) chock trailer and extend tounge and back trailer in water.
4) float boat onto trailer.
5) chock trailer, remove extend a tounge, and connect truck to trailer w/elecrical and safety chains.

After boat is floated on trailer and pulled from water (before climbing up on the boat):

1)Install mast crutch - from the ground. I use a short two step type kitchen ladder for this.
2) put box of mast raising gear and longer furler support on boat. Note: Put on the boat at stern when installing the mast crutch.

Climb up on the boat on the trailer. I do this from the swim ladder off off the two step kitchen ladder. Way eaiser than the ladder on the trailer:
1) release backstay turnbuckle and remove one of the legs (to loosen the headstay). Count the turns when releasing - in the future I will have a release lever (project uncompleted).
2) pull up mast crutch to tall position so mast will miss the wheel guard when lowering.
3) install baby stays, and rig mast bridle.
4) pull up trailer raising system, add tension.
5) release forstay pin.
6) lower mast to crutch - I hang the fuler drum off of a life line so it does not "flop" around and scratch boat or fall off the side of boat.
7) remove mast bridle, baby stays, lower trailer/mast system, pull mast pin, disconect mast wiring plug, and pull mast forward to traveling position.
8) lower mast crutch for travel.
9) put furler supports on mast and install one bunge to hold in place.
10) place furler in supports and finish bungee cords to hold secure
11) I use two winch straps to secure mast to boat - one at baby stay stantions and one at angle stantions by companion way.
12) tie each spreader to a life line so mast does not roll.
13) coil up wire rigging and bungee to mast
14) drop a dock line on each coaming winch over side of boat.
15) close hatch and lock up boat - I put the storage box in the cabin for the mast raising gear so it is already on boat for when I raise the mast later.

Down on ground (don't forget to raise swim ladder and put two step ladder in truck):
1) use a winch strap and secure to dock lines at coaming winches to tie rear of boat to trailer.
2) check bow to ensure safety chain is in place at bow eye.

Boat now ready to roll down the road. Reverse to float boat back in the water. This procudure on the trailer takes me about 30 minintes. Probably another 30 minites to install boom and head sail once boat is floated. I do the boom and sails on the water so I don't tie up the boat trailer preparation area too long. Plus it breaks it down into two activities and gives me a little break in between. I don't loosen any shrouds only back stay. Watch shackels when installing boom and head sail on the water. One bounce and they are gone.

My system works good for me. I also leave motor and rudder in place on stern.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 09/17/2008 : 18:40:06

Wil is pretty close to our technique.
We also ....
..Blow the water ballast on the way into the marina, makes it much easier to get the boat on the trailer (particularly getting the bow on top of the bow bunk.)

..Have the mast crutch installed on a 2nd set of pintals to stbd of the rudder. We leave it in place all the time, the solar panel is also attached to the crutch. No need to pull the rudder off!

..7a) Put a cylindrical fender about 6" aft of the mast foot on the cabin top before lowering the mast, it takes the weight of the mast and makes removing the mast foot bolt easy.

We leave the shrouds connected all the time. Before lowering the mast I secure turnbuckles by using a couple of tie-wraps attaching them to the lifelines, prevents them getting bent (again

Then the shrouds get secured to the mast by a piece of 1/4" line about 60' long, along with the furler and the halyards.

This method greatly reduces the stuff to get done when raising the mast upon arrival at the marina.

Paul

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 09/17/2008 : 21:48:15

Great ideas. So, are some of you saying that you do not loosen the shrouds at all and can still lower and raise the mast?? I thought the rear shrouds (uppers) actually pull the mast back and need to be loosened (along with the backstay) to unpin the forestay.

Also, what "release lever" are you considering for the backstay?

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 09/18/2008 : 06:10:13

Randy, correct for our 2005WB. We keep the shrouds attached at all times, we don't slacken them at all. If we unhitch the backstay prior to tensioning the jib halyard, removing the pin is a breeze.

We're changing the backstay to twin backstays and both will have pelican hooks with retainers.

Paul

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 09/18/2008 : 07:33:54

Once I got my rig tuned. I took a sharpie and made marks on the front turnbuckle as to where the ends of the forestay and "T" bolt were on the inside of the turnbuckle.

So when I loosen the forestay turnbuckle to take the mast down I know where to tighen it back up to.

I never loosen the uppers or lower shrouds. By tighten forestay turnbuckle to the marks. Its right back in tune. (or very very close).

Edited by - on

britinusa
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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 09/18/2008 : 07:48:29

I have watched Tom Potter get Knotty Cat ready for the road, they have it down! And I think we both need frequent refils of cool water.

Sometimes I'm envious of you guys that just throw off the docklines and head out!

Tom, have you started on the slip at the new place yet?

paul

Edited by - on

welshoff
Captain

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USA
253 Posts

Response Posted - 09/18/2008 : 11:08:05

Randy,
Here is the [url="http://www.csjohnson.com/marinecatalog/p/00027.jpg"]quick release [/url] lever I bought (#14-206). I just have not installed yet.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 09/18/2008 : 12:09:26

I thought about putting these on my shrouds. When I replace the standing rigging (probably not for a couple of years), I will allow for these at the ends to make rigging & de-rigging easier & faster w/o losing tune. I had them on my catamaran, and they were great.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 09/18/2008 : 14:20:33

OK, I am really learning here. Thank you all!

I don't want to mess with the forestay turnbuckle if I can avoid it. It means messing with the furler drum plus I keep those toggles pinned so that they cannot ever unwind and have the forestay fail.

So, tell me if this will work. Leave the shrouds tightened in a good tune and leave the forestay tightened. Add a quick release lever to the backstay (now a single backstay). Release the lever to slacken the backstay. Pin or unpin the forestay. (of course have the gin pole or trailer system attached first)

Will just slackening the backstay be enough? It sounds just like Tom's approach but using the backstay to create the slack instead of the forestay. If so this would really help. I currently loosen the shrouds and the backstay but not the forestay. If you are all saying the shrouds don't matter (still puzzled since the uppers do pull the mast back) then shouldn't the loosening of the backstay be all that is needed?? Tom, why do you bother loosening the backstay??

Edited by - Nautiduck on 09/18/2008 14:22:25

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 09/18/2008 : 15:20:36

Randy, when I loosen the forestay turnbuckle, I loosen it all the way without the ends coming out. The forestay pin is still a little to tight to pull out with my fingers. However its loose enough so I can pull a back stay leg pin out of the split back stay easy.

Once I pull that back stay pin, the back stay straightens out and gives the forestay lots of slack so the forestay pin will slide out easy.

I've looked at the Standard Rig along side of my Tall Rig and it looks like to me that the uppers on the Standard Rig have more of a angle pulling backwards than the Tall Rig. I believe we have a little difference there, so I can't comment on your release lever idea. Although if you do it, I would like to know how it works for you.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 09/18/2008 : 15:56:08

I loosen the forestay enough to be able to get the pin out without loosening the backstay at all. In general I don't touch the backstay turnbuckle, ever. However, loosening it instead of the forestay is much easier to do, so maybe I'll start doing it Tom's way. Right now my split stays are pinned so they'd be difficult to undo & redo, but that's an easy fix.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 09/18/2008 : 16:18:21

FYI, we have pulled the headstay/furler pin without easing the backstay, but as the backstay has to be disconnected at the hull as part of the unrigging process (the cable would get in the way of the ladder access to the cockpit.) We either ease or detach the lower end of the backstay.

At present, the only thing to 'adjust' after rigging the boat is the tension on the backstay as the headstay/furler and the shrouds were not altered during mast lowering.

I expect that when I add the twin backstays and pelican hooks, then no adjustment will be required on the back stay either. The twin backstays are going to be attached to the cat bird seats outside of the bimini.

Paul

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 09/18/2008 : 16:57:11

"disconnected at the hull"
Thats were I disconnect it. Sorry if I may have confused someone.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 09/18/2008 : 19:12:04

Great! Next time we need to do this I will try to loosen the backstay only and see if that is enough. If it is then that would be sweet. I'd rather fiddle with the backstay than the forestay/furler if I can. I wonder how much slack those quick-release levers provide? I went to the single stay and really like it. Now I want to get a new backstay so the turnbuckle is lower (not over my head) and while I do that I could have them put in the quick-release lever as well.

Edited by - on

welshoff
Captain

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USA
253 Posts

Response Posted - 09/19/2008 : 10:57:15

If you have a snap furl furler, you will not have access to the turnbuckle. The turnbuckle is covered by the furling drum.

I don't loosen shrouds - they stay as adjusted.

I only loosen the back stay. Since I still have the split backstay, I loosen the turnbuckle probably 15 turns. This loosens enough to remove one of the legs. I just remove the one leg at the back stay right at the backstay triangle - as that is where I am standing when I loosen the turnbuckle. If I remember right, this is only a couple inches of movement when you loosen the turnbuckle. I think this is about the throw on the quick release lever, but I have not verified this yet.

I do not even have the mast raising gear in place yet when I loosen and remove the one leg of the backstay.

Now I move to the bow of the boat and install the mast raising equipment. Once in place, I put a little tension on the trailer winch and this pulls the mast forward and the forestay pin is then loose and can be removed. Be advised: You can't pull the mast forward very far at this point. Since the bridle only goes half way up the mast, if you pull to hard it tends to cause the top of the mast to go backwards as it then starts pulling against the upper shrouds.

I have used this system 8-10 times over the last 3-4 years and I have had no problems.

When I step the mast, I just reverse the process. I then have only have the backstay to re-tighten - the 15 turns when I loosened it. Hence the thought of the quick release lever, but in reality this only takes 4-5 minutes to loosen the turn buckle. It may only be a mental thing to make life easier when de-rigging or rigging the boat.

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 09/19/2008 : 17:25:10

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by britinusa
 
Tom, have you started on the slip at the new place yet?

paul
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I met with the dock builder today. Will be building a 6'x70' dock with a 12'x16' platform at the end. (Total 82' length) With 4 mooring pilings for Knotty Cat at the end and and a small slip for Kevin's fishing skiff along side the dock.

He starts driving the pilings Monday!

Edited by - Tom Potter on 09/19/2008 17:25:42

britinusa
Web Editor

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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 09/19/2008 : 17:39:17

Tom, if it's done by this weekend, we'll trail up next week

Sounds great, I bet the views are awesome.

Peggy is envious too

Paul

Edited by - on

Navy1
Navigator

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USA
126 Posts

Response Posted - 09/22/2008 : 21:30:08

Paul, How do you blow the water ballast tank when you are heading into the marina? This would certainly make it easier to get the boat on the trailer. Anxiously waiting your reply. Thanks - Roger

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2008 : 09:16:01

I think it was either Frank or Arlyn that gave us this idea.
We purchased a rechargable air pump from Walmart and made an adaptor to fit in the air vent of the ballast tank (vent is in the anchor locker).
We open the hull valve and then use the pump to blow the water out, it takes about 10-15 minutes and does it on a single charge of the pump battery.

We have used the technique to get us off the bottom when we went too shallow in a sandy bay, that 3-4" less draft got us off the shallows and saved us waiting till tide came in.

When the ballast is empty, you'll hear bubbles vent from the hull valve, we just pull the pump out and quickly put the rubber bung back in then close the hull valve.

Works a charm.

Paul

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2008 : 18:12:26

Sounds great, I bet the views are awesome.

Peggy is envious too

Paul
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Okay Paul what time will you and Peggy be arriving!

They finished my dock this afternoon.

Edited by - Tom Potter on 09/24/2008 18:17:38

britinusa
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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2008 : 20:41:46

Sweet Tom! Very Sweet!

I'll start saving for the fuel!

Paul

Edited by - on

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