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Maybe you can teach a dog new tricks..

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Summer Wind
Deckhand

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12 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/22/2008 : 16:22:57

I posted this over at the racing forum but at the suggestion of a friend (thanks Steve) I re-posted it here. Any advice would be great
_______________
First, this is my first post and first time on the site (great by the way) I have a 1979 Catalina25. I signed up for the Boston Harbor Island Regatta this Saturday and I'm hoping to get a few pointers, specifically "tuning". Does anyone have a tips? Anything would be greatly appreciated!

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/22/2008 : 17:13:17

Welcome! A few questions...

1. Do you have an adjustable (split) backstay?

2. Tall or standard rig?

3. Fin or swing keel?

4. How long have you had your C-25?

5. What is your racing experience to date--on any boat--skipper or crew?

6. What can we call you, other than Summer? ...or Summ?

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 09/22/2008 17:19:04

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 09/22/2008 : 17:56:41

First of all, loose is good on your rigging, but a lot depends on the wind forecast. If its strong wind, tighten up. If you need to do a lot of pointing, make sure the forestay is tight. An adjustable backstay requires special tuning and Steve Milby has written a guide here on the forum under Technical Tips for boats with and without adjustable backstays. You can significantly bend the C25 mast up to 8 inches.

Second of all contrary to what you might expect, I've found that the C25 is best (relative to the PHRF fleet) off the wind or downwind in light air. I've won a race boat for boat not even counting handicap in very light wind with downwind legs under my spinnaker. I lost lots of ground on the upwind legs. You can't win a pointing race against modern sport boats. Nor can yu plane off the wind like they can. You will be happier in a fleet composed of boats rated 175 or higher, 200 or higher is even better, it's practically match racing!

The C25 is also good in very VERY heavy air. I was the first boat around Catalina Island in the Crew of Two around Catalina in 20 - 25 knots of wind and seas 3 to 5. I was reefed with a #2 headsail. The big sport boats were rounding up out of control because they had no reef points and no smaller jibs as I sailed by. On my ear, but going on by and pointed higher, too.

Check this out, lots of good race photos and narratives:

http://www.indiscipline.org/cat25/indyIII.html

Racing is mostly tactics and PHRF is usually decided by a matter of minutes or seconds. Even in the 36 mile ocean race last weekend I was in 8th but only 20 minutes out of first on corrected time for an 8 hour race (class was boats 150 PHRF and up). You can sail to your rating in a C25. But ace the start and trim, trim, trim during the race, never let off working.

If you practice, go light on the beer, and concentrate, you can do it.

Edited by - JimB517 on 09/22/2008 18:00:45

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 09/22/2008 : 17:58:48

Also, tilt you mast back about 6 inches from vertical. Get it so that in medium wind, with backstay and forestay tight, jib sheeted in, main in tight, you've just got a weather helm.

How's that for a balanced helm?

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/22/2008 : 21:48:44

That picture is perfect--about 5 degrees weather helm. An expert racer told me that makes the boat faster than a neutral helm... Nice to know, because it also makes it safer.

Edited by - on

Summer Wind
Deckhand

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12 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2008 : 01:28:15

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 Welcome! A few questions...

1. Do you have an adjustable (split) backstay?

2. Tall or standard rig?

3. Fin or swing keel?

4. How long have you had your C-25?

5. What is your racing experience to date--on any boat--skipper or
crew?

6. What can we call you, other than Summer? ...or Summ?

You can create a "signature" under the Profile link above, so that key information about you and your boat will appear under each post. You can see signatures under most of our posts here. Again--welcome!

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Adjustable backstay
Standard rig
Fixed Keel
I've had her for 3 yrs
I feel very comforable sailing, but racing....novice

You can all me JD. Thanks again for your help

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2008 : 08:38:20

Well, as you might already know, you can use the backstay adjuster to loosen the rig in light air, making the jib (and to some extent the main) fuller, and tighten it in heavier air to straighten the jib luff and (to some extent) flatten the main. If your forward lower shrouds are a little tighter than the aft lowers, the backstay can bend the mast a little, which flattens the main. However, if your sails are on the older side, all of that might be moot. Just tip your mast as Jim describes so you have light weather helm, and then go out there and do it. Your skills are more important now than the tune of your rig.

I've only crewed, but I've learned a fair amount from that... My normal advice to a novice is to (1) read up on the basic rules and strategies for racing--the start, rounding marks, the meaning of overlap and other right-of-way definitions... then (2) stay out of the way of the serious guys at the start, but pick a boat you can probably stay within sight of (not a J-120), do what he does and trim as he trims--keeping a watch on anyone else around you of course. If you can get somebody with any racing experience to crew with you, make him your tactician and you'll learn some more.

Some races are friendly here-to-there, loose-on-the-rules affairs... but in most real races, you can expect some serious competitors who will "teach you a lesson" if you get in their way or appear to be competitive (including with your handicap). Start easy, but know the rules. And celebrate beating some 260-handicap boat to the finish.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2008 : 09:49:41

... and there are round the buoy races and ROUND THE BUOY races. On a lake like ours the racing is close quarters with lots of traffic, many of Jim's Pacific Ocean races are parades with passing lanes after the start. No slight intended Jim, just different tactics.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2008 : 11:51:54

no slight taken. The most recent race had only 1 mark - leave the Coronado Islands (14 miles offshore) to port.

Edited by - on

Summer Wind
Deckhand

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12 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2008 : 08:27:21

thanks Fellas. I"ll let you know how it shakes out!

Edited by - on

Summer Wind
Deckhand

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12 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2008 : 09:06:43

Fellas, fog came in and 25 ft visibility all day, it was crazy out there. Thank god for my Garmin hand-held. I hope to get into another race before the weather turns up here. Thanks again for all your help!

JD

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2008 : 16:47:01

With 25' of visibility, you need more than a GPS... You even need more than radar... You need a dock!

Edited by - on

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Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.