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boat trailering 101

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glivs
Admiral

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USA
836 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/15/2008 : 10:04:24

this fellow must have skipped a few classes!

Gerry Livingston, Malletts Bay, VT
"Great Escape" 1989 C-25 SR/WK #5972

Edited by - glivs on 10/15/2008 10:05:17

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 10/15/2008 : 11:25:14

Ouch! I guess his brakes work.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 10/15/2008 : 12:02:22

"I guess his brakes work."

The way he's wrapped around that concrete post... maybe not.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
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4593 Posts

Response Posted - 10/15/2008 : 16:03:00

Good point. I missed that part, concentrating on the boat.

Edited by - on

John Russell
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3444 Posts

Response Posted - 10/15/2008 : 16:44:03

I think this is what happens when you overload the capacity of the truck. Big boat and it looks like a full truck bed on a small truck. Not too mention tie downs on the boat. Those that think it's OK to exceed a manufacturer's load limits, should take a good look at this.

Yeah, I know, I made a lot of assumptions here but, there's a lesson to be learned.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/15/2008 : 17:28:02

Yup--too much curve, too much brakes, and not enough truck. Crunch! Take note, Grand Cherokee guys.

When I was a kid, a guy I knew was trailing a Thompson lapstrake outboard runabout and was rear-ended (or the boat was)--the end result looked about like that, without the telephone pole. Amazingly, the boat was fine. (The engine wasn't.)

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 10/15/2008 17:30:00

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 10/15/2008 : 21:06:43

This is why you should always get your boat neutered.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 10/15/2008 : 22:33:22

Don't think there is enough data talk talk about tow vehicles (I am safely within the limit for a Grand Cherokee); the remains of the trailer appears to be appropriately aligned behind the truck. Regardless of your vehicle, this is what happens when you use a pole to stop. Even at thirty mph, stopping in 2 feet is a lot of G's. I think Steve hit it on the mark.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/15/2008 : 22:35:45

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">This is why you should always get your boat neutered.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Or your Saab, one of which I saw in that same position on a Chevy on the a Merritt Parkway entrance ramp a few years back.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 10/15/2008 22:36:38

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/15/2008 : 23:03:02

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave5041
 Don't think there is enough data talk talk about tow vehicles (I am safely within the limit for a Grand Cherokee); the remains of the trailer appears to be appropriately aligned behind the truck. Regardless of your vehicle, this is what happens when you use a pole to stop.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Sorry, but a 109" W/B tow vehicle is not adequate for trailing a C-25 on the highway. Most Grand Cherokees are rated for 3500 lbs--if one is rated for twice that (with the same wheelbase), I'd be skeptical. This is what happens. The beefed-up engine and transmission are fine, but you get into a situation you didn't quite expect (like this curve), you hit the brakes, and the trailer takes over and directs you where it wants. This driver probably still doesn't know what happened--happily he just ran into a pole. I've seen a similar event up close. Gambling that it won't happen is gambling with other people's lives.

Yes, I'll admit I'm the tow-vehicle Nazi--I have a thing about respect for other people's lives on the highway.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 10/15/2008 23:04:35

Dave5041
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3758 Posts

Response Posted - 10/16/2008 : 10:25:28

20% more is the magic number? Grand Cherokees go up to 7400 lbs. towing; trucks with 140 inch wheelbase can be rated with up to 50% higher limits. If that is a lethal combination, there are a lot of potential class action suits out there. You have a right to your opinions, just don't confuse them with facts.

Edited by - on

johnsonp
Admiral

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USA
606 Posts

Response Posted - 10/16/2008 : 11:25:10

It appears Dave is off his medication again.

paulj

Edited by - on

Happy D
Admiral

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921 Posts

Response Posted - 10/16/2008 : 16:56:34

What am I missing here? The guy hit the pole. The boat would have ended up in the back of a Peterbuilt if you hit a pole with it. Does no one see the pole?
Dan

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 10/16/2008 : 17:40:56

I guess the driver of the pickup didn't see the pole either.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 10/16/2008 : 18:09:01

[url="http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.bayinter.net/DSCF1997.jpg&imgrefurl=http://blog.uwmpost.com/%3Fcat%3D35&h=960&w=1280&sz=293&hl=en&start=153&sig2=024rSrnzaQ0xzGe1ziBWNQ&usg=__tLQRa6GnbOPSNplbOqIqbB9WPG0=&tbnid=KknL32XwuZ08-M:&tbnh=113&tbnw=150&ei=usj3SLLuJoP61gbD5_T4Dg&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dtransport%2Btruck%2Bvs.%2Bpole%2Bcrash%26start%3D140%26gbv%3D2%26ndsp%3D20%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN"]Truck hits pole[/url]

not sure if this was a peterbuilt or mack or volvo, but it seems that the truck here fared better than th eone in the pic above, and I don't see any spilled drinks.

here's my take. Wear a seatbelt. Turn off your Cell. Maintain your vehicle. Drive at reasonable speeds. Ignore the idiots. Know your limits.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/16/2008 : 18:14:58

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">What am I missing here? The guy hit the pole. The boat would have ended up in the back of a Peterbuilt if you hit a pole with it.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">...and why did he hit the pole? [speculation] Tight curve, out in the country, a little too much speed, he tries to slow for the turn, and suddenly that 6000 lb. trailer takes over and directs the 4500 lb. midsize pickup with a 125" wheelbase off the road. His "towing capacity" is about 6000 lbs., so he's surprised. But he also has a load-bed full of beer coolers, adding to his rearward load bias. [/speculation]

I only speculate in this direction because I watched a similar incident, but with no pole, so the boat stayed on the trailer and everyone went home. At least one member here also had a similar experience with his brand-new C-250 as I recall.

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
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USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 10/16/2008 : 19:28:55

Or a car pulled out in front of him...

Don't look like a curve to me, looks like a intersection with a pole with electrical box to hold and operate a stop light of some type.

He could have fish in the coolers.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/16/2008 : 19:56:12

Take your pick. Little surprises... BTW, maybe he had airbags--if not, he and anybody else in the cab are probably not doing well right now. These little surprises can get ugly quickly.

Look, my point here is it appeared this was posted as a joke, and it was definitely responded to as a joke. I don't think it is. I think, like lots of things, it's a lesson. If you've ever been in a wreck that collapsed half the front end of a car or truck, you know it isn't a joke.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 10/16/2008 20:03:54

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 10/16/2008 : 23:25:49

It is funny on the surface, but I agree that the consequences are not. Providing anesthesia at a level 1 trauma center for 20 years has given me more examples than I care to count, and most of them involve overconfidence, stupidity, and usually alcohol in varying ratios. To me, the straight line of pole, truck, boat, and trailer suggests that he tried to slow or stop without allowing for the long stopping distance and was pushed straight into the pole, but we'll never know what really happened here.

Edited by - on

At Ease
Admiral

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672 Posts

Response Posted - 10/17/2008 : 16:49:39

There is a saying among those of us that pull heavy 5th wheel RVs..."you can never have too much truck."

Edited by - on

glivs
Admiral

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USA
836 Posts

Response Posted - 10/17/2008 : 18:24:16

As was noted, we really do not know what happened but I can tell you that the curve visible in the image is a side street controlled by the stop light. The main road makes a slow 90 curve from the top left of the image across to the right parallel with the truck. I posted this for the lessons it exemplifies, albeit tongue-in-cheek as no one was injured. A separate photo showed the driver talking with the authorities. My guess is that the driver entered the curve too fast and his momentum redirected his path into the pole.

Edited by - on

BengeB
1st Mate

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USA
30 Posts

Response Posted - 10/17/2008 : 22:06:53

I have to say it sure is funny reading what you guys have to say about something you don't have all the facts about. It is a lot like listening to politics.

Edited by - on

crystal_blue
1st Mate

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USA
71 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2008 : 11:43:39

Dave B., if I'm looking for a vehicle that can safely tow a 250 WB (4500 pounds without ballast, IIRC), is it enough that the vehicle's stated tow capacity is 4500 pounds? If not, what percentage "safety margin" would you recommend? What other variables (e.g. wheelbase) need to be considered, and how would they all relate to each other?

Maybe someone could write up a tech tip about trailering basics that included sections on selecting a tow vehicle, safe driving techniques, types of trailer brake systems, and launching straps?

--Jim

Edited by - crystal_blue on 10/18/2008 11:44:12

John Russell
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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2008 : 12:09:47

Jim,
This topic comes up about every 3-4 months it seems. You'll find a wide range of suggested vehicles. Most agree that bigger is better but some will suggest that the manufacturers "limits" are really just guidelines that can be overlooked "if you're careful and pay attention" or somesuch nonsense. You'll read stories of people crossing the Rockies pulling a house with a VW Vanagon (OK, maybe a little exagerated) and others saying anything short of a Peterbilt is not enough truck.

I'm in the camp that believes the vehicle manufacturers' posted limits. I would also want to hedge on the side of too much vehicle to allow for variance in weight loads depending on supplies, etc., on board. Don't forget to include the weight of the people and "stuff" that you'll have in the vehicle. Also, that 4500 Lbs. figure doesn't include the weight of the trailer, does it? What about the weight of the water ballast as you pull away from the ramp? When you're trying to pull away from a crowded ramp would be a bad time to find out that you need more truck.

There's a lot to read if you search the archives. But, this thread will likely take on a life of its own as more and more boats come out of the water for the winter.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2008 : 17:41:46

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by crystal_blue
 Dave B., if I'm looking for a vehicle that can safely tow a 250 WB (4500 pounds without ballast, IIRC), is it enough that the vehicle's stated tow capacity is 4500 pounds?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I dunno... As John says above, you must consider the total weight--boat, motor, other contents, and trailer. People here have weighed their C-25s on highway scales and reported totals over 8000 lbs. The "dry weight" is 4400-4500 lbs depending on keel. (I don't know if that even includes the sails.) I wouldn't tow a load at or close to the vehicle's limit on the highway, and I'd go for as much wheelbase as practical (like a 145" F-150). As I said, I've seen the results of not enough tow vehicle, and it was scary. Trailer brakes will help to some degree in some circumstances, but directional stability is a complex issue.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 10/18/2008 17:43:08

Happy D
Admiral

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921 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2008 : 18:14:08

It's the hitch that's probably under weight for our C25s. At 8000 lbs. you need a weight distribution hitch. How many of us are using one of those?

Edited by - Happy D on 10/18/2008 18:14:45

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