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cat1951
Admiral

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USA
636 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/28/2008 : 11:14:56

This is not a venting thread, but one of just plain old observation. I am a West Marine Advantage member, so I get the multitude of e-mails about special offers and special sales. Yeah, I am special..... just like the rest of us.

So I get the most recent e-mail and I go through most of the categories to see if there is anything that I can't do without. Well I see that they are selling a travel edition of Yahtzee. I like Yahtzee and we bought one pretty much like it earlier this year.

Now a I know that we bought ours from the cheaper guy Milton Bradley, but thought that the WM one was probably a lot better since it is made by John Hansen. They must be cousin's, but have very different financial needs. In pictures of both, they look exactly alike except for the John, or Milton brand listing. The WM one (on sale in the clearance section) sells for $29.99 plus shipping. Milton's sells for $15.78 plus shipping. I guess Johns must float, or the word "marine" must appear somewhere on it.

Mike
Grand Lake, OK
N.O. Catalina 25 #4849
In my opinion 75% of the earth is water for a reason. That's why I sail.

Edited by - cat1951 on 10/28/2008 11:17:03

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5378 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2008 : 00:01:02

I'll grant your venting, but I just have to say that it's the ridiculous markups at WM that make me consistently look for alternatives, whether I go to other boating stores like Boater's World dot com or Defender (who are also known to add a few percent to their prices) or shop alternatives for other categories (like adhesives, camping gear, stainless steel fasteners, wiring, connectors and fixtures, or any number of alternatives)

But I gotta wonder with the economic downturn we're hearing about daily and are experiencing personally (some or most of us), whether WM can weather the storm by trying some dopey shenanigans?

The mainstream of their recent rather dramatic expansion came from just regular, middle class people who were doing a little bit better in the past 4-6 years than in the past, and so either got into boating to start with or got into it in a bigger way.

I went from an $1800 daysailor that came with everything from an engine to a trailer, and life jackets to a toolset!, which I spent maybe $200 a year on - to a C25 that I have to dock and store over the winter and regularly fix, tweak, improve and upgrade to more like $1000 per year. We're talking maybe $5K a year, some of which is/was going to WM. That's about to slow down.

I just wonder what other useless crap WM is going to try to get me to buy?

Perhaps at this point, they ought to concentrate on value over big profits, and try to keep the customers they have coming back?

Edited by - on

cat1951
Admiral

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USA
636 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2008 : 08:21:30

Thanks Bruce, that is where I was coming from, and knew this wouldn't be the first thread on the WM pricing. And probably not the last. However, it is very disappointing to continually get e-mail notices of "great/terrific" sales and markdowns that still don't meet the standards of "getting a good deal." Atlease in my book. I mean, really, if I can go buy the same item on sale somewhere else and save 50% off of their price, what kind of sale is that? And it was just a game of Yahtzee!!!!!!! Waterproof score pads????

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2008 : 10:55:18

Marine quality score pads!

WM stores will generally match prices (including shipping if it's web/mail order). I regularly get my WM store here to match Defender for items with heftier tags. (Defender is just a 15 minute drive from here.) And I try to wait for Defender's spring warehouse sale--it's wild, and it's hard to beat 10% off all of their prices.

I suspect the reason WM is private-branding more and more items is so they can claim the other guy isn't selling exactly the same thing.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2008 : 11:28:17

When I worked 10 minutes away from a WM store, I regularly went there, often on lunch break to window shop. Now it is a major trip unless I'm going to or are already at the marina. I've learned, especially after reading this forum, to be very careful what I buy at WM (I'm also an Advantage Club card holder).
Thanks to you guys for introducing me to Defender. I'm jealous that you are so close to them, then again maybe it's good that I'm not!!
I bought my all-rope halyards for the C-22 from them, 3/16" Ultra-tech, 2,300 lb breaking strength. Awesome stuff! also, we did a group whisker pole order with them, buying 4 at one time. got a good discount and saved on shipping, too.
with WM's pricing, it's no wonder that they lost money in the 4th qtr, 2007, at least, so I heard.

Edited by - dmpilc on 10/30/2008 11:29:11

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2008 : 12:44:55

I actually sort of enjoy beating up WM on their price guarantee. I recently put down hardwood floors, removing all carpet from the house. This made the stairs pretty slippery for our aging hound, so I looked for some 3M tread tape. WM was selling it for $3/ft roughly, and I needed about 75' or so. I wasn't about to drop $225 on the tape at WM, so I started scouting around & after about 1/2 hour's research on the web, found the exact same 3M part number for $0.44/ft. I called my local WM, asked them if they had the part number & how much they had, then asked them to match the price. Loooong pause, then he said he'd match it. Then he asked me if I knew that he paid $0.42/ft for it to which I replied, then you're still making nearly 7% on the sale, which isn't a bad margin. I bought 90' of it (all they had) for about $40 or so figuring I'd end up using some on SL as well. The only thing I had to provide them was a printout of the advertised price.

Do your research on big ticket items & then go beat them up on the price, you still get their guarantee. It's gratifying to hear them agree to prices less than half of what the everyday schmoe's paying.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2008 : 12:48:02

Bought RV antifreeze good to -50deg F at a local Ace Hardware for $3.95/gallon. It pays to keep one's eyes open while in stores not remotely connected to boating.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2008 : 13:38:30

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by delliottg
 ...I replied, then you're still making nearly 7% on the sale, which isn't a bad margin.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">For a brick-and-mortar retailer with employees, inventory, "shrinkage", returns, utilities, rent, etc., it's death. Retail store gross margins are generally 60-100%. Net profits are a fraction of that (or these days, negative). He was keeping you happy, but he lost money on that sale. Hopefully the "schmoes" will keep him in business.

That said, I like using Defender to catch them trying for 150%+ markups.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2008 : 14:39:52

I like WM. Around here they have the biggest stores and the best inventory so I like to browse the aisles. When it comes to buying just check the online stores and go with the best price. I bought the Magma Kettle on sale at WM and it was less than Defender, plus the shipping was free. As always, keep your eye out for bargains. Also WM has a terrific return policy. I know they are a favorite target to bash but I'd be sorry to see them gone.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2008 : 15:30:58

Randy, I have 2 WM's, within a mile apart, by me. I too would hate to see them gone. I now just shop around like everyone else. I recently bought TWO marine batteries at my local auto parts store for about the same price as ONE at WM. But I have gotten some good bargains at WM as well. And I like getting those $20 off coupons. As you state, Randy, the service and return policy is very good-almost better than Costco now!

Dave, I agree 7% is not doable but in David's example, WM was making 600%.

With this current economy, more business will be closing their doors. Not sure if WM will be on of them or maybe the will be more like Defender. Like most of us, we can only buy from Defender online. I would miss the ability to go in the store and see and touch what I want to buy if WM closed down or became like Defender, that is mostly do business online with just a few stores.

Steve A

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2008 : 15:49:27

WM's stock recently went from 13 bucks a share to 3 and they hired a new President who supposedly slashed prices on over 2000 items. We just bought one of those heavy duty folding carts that used to sell for 80 bucks for 35... But they stopped selling stuff that "real" boaters need, like thin lite flourescent bulbs and Rotella T engine oil by the gallon. Why the push to sell car "plotters" and gadgets when what I really need is a whale foot pump for my galley? Henri Lloyd - gone, most Gill foulies in favor of their cheap crap. Sorry, but we have both Henri Lloyd and Gill onboard and the WM stuff is very sketchy by comparison.

Marine is a specialty market - but I think the goal is to standardize it so that "Apu" from the Simpsons can run one.

But I don't want them to go out without a better replacement all over the place. Some one of - mom and pop stores are good, but the majority are not. WM is the "necessary" evil empire!

sten

Edited by - redviking on 10/30/2008 15:51:28

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3467 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2008 : 18:27:20

I frequent West Marine. It is like Home Depot but for boats. I agree their prices can be beat. I occasionally will buy items for less elsewhere if I know where to get the stuff but i do not necessarily waste my time going to other stores in search of things when the WM store conveninetly has many of the items. I also have bought items over the web like from Defender, etc which has good prices on line. My Humminbird Fishfinder I also purchased online. However, some items there is definitely a benefit buying locally besides supporting the local merchant. When I bought 2 Scirroco fans, I could have gotten them a wee bit cheaper elsewhere online but I purchased them via online from WM, since they were not carried in the store. As it turned out, this worked for me since one was damaged. I brought it into the store, they returned it for me and when the replacement came to the store, they gave it to me. No mess involved.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2008 : 21:09:41

There's no denying WM's service... The Mystic store is phenomenal, with knowledgeable staff and dedicated management. But even they are sometimes at a loss to defend their own prices. I'm afraid the corporate game is to play the savvy mariner against the unwitting "boater"--the latter pays inflated prices that make up for the former knowing about the alternatives. For the larger-ticket items, I'm the former--I give them the choice, and I can (and do) easily drive to Defender. (Their service is excellent, too!) But I try to be fair--having a local store where you can see, touch, and feel products, and get something the same day, is almost (but not quite) priceless.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2008 : 22:05:39

I, too, like WM because they almost always have what I need. There is significant cost in stocking all those items that hardly anyone buys. The same holds true for the absolute return policy. And price matching lets me buy bigger ticket items competitively. My recent purchase of a Mercury 9.9XLS was impacted by Online Outboards. WM couldn't sell me the Merc for the price of a Tohatsu (actually, they said I should buy the Tohatsu) , but they did let me have for only few hundred more and over $600 off list.

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 10/31/2008 : 09:25:02

What I like about the West Marine catalog is that when you see a price there, you know that it is the maximum price you will see for that item anywhere.

Edited by - on

cat1951
Admiral

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USA
636 Posts

Response Posted - 10/31/2008 : 09:27:16

Most of what has been said I agree with. I like WM too and that is why I didn't want to start another bashing thread. It's just that you really have to shop there with a "buyer beware" attitude. Not anything to do with service, or product availability, just price. That is why I gave the Yahtzee example. It frosts me for them to announce a "SALE" and then when you really comparison shop you find the sale price is still too high.

I do frequent our WM store, just with a bit of wariness when buying.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 10/31/2008 : 09:40:08

I don't mind WM. They are next door to "The Dock Shoppe" who is a local chandler, and a good guy locally. Of course to get to a chandler I either drive 1 hour south to "the City" or an hour north to Barrie. In barrie the best stores are West marine and (Surprisingly) an Ace Hardware store that has a wall full of high end stuff.

For the Canucks on here... Are you aware that "The Binnacle" ( www.binnacle.com ) sells at better prices than the Toronto chandlers, stocks real marine grade stuff, and ships free onorders over $100?? I stoppedin there store in Halifax not long ago and was very impressed by there service/selection/knowledge.

Edited by - on

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