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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Boat inusrance

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hinmo
Navigator

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USA
248 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/03/2008 : 05:15:21

I was talking with my sailing friend over a few cold ones this weekend. The topic of boat insurance came up. My new (old) Cat 25 is my third boat I will have in the water next season. I have one fully insured, the second gets liability only. Seeing I paid 2K for the Cat25, I don't see much insurable value. The two areas I would be concerned about are:

1) liability (although minimal)
2) damage to other property (boat breaks mooring and takes out someone elses boat)

...honestly, I considered not insuring at all, till talking to my friend (hes an alarmist and is worth a couple mil, quite the opposite of me)

Thoughts? Thanks

"Kukla" '83 FK,SR

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2008 : 07:14:39

I think it's irresponsible to not have sufficient resources to provide for any damages that I (or my boat) might cause. For me, that means insurance. Besides, if you plan to put the boat in a marina, they will likely require it.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2008 : 07:45:28

Catalinas are very well built, if your boat inflicts damage on another boat it will likely inflict serious damage. Liability is required to be a good citizen.
BTW #s 1&2 are the same thing.

Edited by - pastmember on 11/03/2008 07:46:27

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2008 : 08:54:30

Until I sold my C25 in 2004, my insurance premium for full coverage (including liability insurance as well as any damage to my boat) was only $125.00 per year. For that price, if my boat or motor was damaged, or someone else's boat was damaged, or if someone was hurt by my negligence, the insurance company would cover it, up to $100,000. per person or $300,000. per incident. Moreover, the insurance company would, at it's option and at it's expense, either hire legal counsel to defend against the claims, or pay the claims. That's cheap protection for my house and cars and boat and motorcycle and bank account and paycheck. If I had an accident without insurance, the damaged parties would undoubtedly have sued me and attached and sold some or all of the above, and garnisheed my paycheck, until they were fully compensated for their losses.

Boat insurance is, by comparison, much cheaper than auto insurance, and going without is a foolish economy.

Edited by - on

Bortiquai
1st Mate

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88 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2008 : 12:15:50

$125 per year is pretty cheap. I pay $800 per year for full coverage. Still, once incedent would almost certainly cover at least a couple years of premiums. The other day, I saw a hunter 32 take out onc of those very expensive looking Sport-Fishers. Just clipped it's Bow as he was pulling out of the dock. Didn't look too bad, but I figured by the time they guy had it "professionally" repaired, hauled out if it needed... I'm glad I got the insurance. You never know....

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2008 : 13:09:59

Inland lake vs. the Florida coast... that probably explains the range of prices... I have my car, home, and boat insured together with an additional umbrella liability policy over all of them. (Now somebody's gonna sneak up in a kayak and try to get run over!) I can imagine foregoing loss coverage for your own boat--you know the worst your loss can be (although there could be an EPA bill involved, too). Liability for somebody else's loss or injury is a whole different thing.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 11/03/2008 13:12:15

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2008 : 14:46:55

Our marina requires $500,000 policy for each of the boats in it. That seemed a bit extreme to me, but the difference between what we already had SL insured for and half a million amounted to something like $32/year more, and I added their "best" towing rider to the policy. I think our total for the year is less than $350? I'm sure it'd be 2-3x that in FL, but here in the PNW, it seems like a pretty good deal and a no-brainer.

That said, my San Juan 21 never had insurance on it. When I bought it, they wanted me to have a survey done which would have been something like 25% -30% of the purchase price. My insurance company has long since gotten away from this policy, but at the time I didn't think it was worth it. Fortunately the closest thing I came to an accident in that boat was bumping off a friend's stern in tight quarters when we were both moving at less than maneuvering speeds.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2008 : 14:53:26

Steve M and the rest all have good points. You may not be worth a mil but you still have something to lose and you can be required to have insurance in certain situations.
Even if you don't care about your boat, think about medical for your passengers too. And what if one of them is at the helm and a power boat hits you! As we have all seen, you can be found liable.
And for a few bucks more, you can add towing of your boat should you need that.
Bottom line, its so cheap, how can you not afford it. You have got more to lose.
Steve A

Edited by - on

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2008 : 14:54:42

I've been a bad citizen. In Florida insurance is quite expensive ($1000) but I never considered just getting liability. I think I'll look into it!

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2008 : 15:50:27

The question is how one leaves those they injure. People are entitled to risk personal bankruptcy and eternal regret, this is America, but they are not entitled to destroy someone else's welfare. If one can't play the game by the rules they should simply choose another game where the rules are a better fit.

Edited by - pastmember on 11/03/2008 15:51:38

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2008 : 19:58:14

Word.

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bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2008 : 20:55:49

I have been in the same boat -- but -- let me share some thoughts. Besides the Cat 25 I have a 17' CC powerboat that I bought new -- and insured fully from the git-go. My boat club where boats are stored summer and winter requires insurance so, it was a no brain-er. When I got the Cat 25 -- a freebie that needed restoration -- I added it to my homeowners liability insurance, which made my boat club happy and cost me $50.00/year. Then . . . . we had a Labor Day nor'easter that did millions of damage in my "cove" on western Long Island Sound. The boat that did the most damage was from a neighboring club. He lost upward of half a million and inflicted literally millions of damage. He is an insurance broker who had no insurance on the boat -- and almost had to file for bankruptcy. I saw the light! Had an appraisal done for insurance reasons and added my boat tot he other boat policy -- liability and "replacement" value. All in, for two boats I pay @$500.00 with Progressive insurance. And . . . I sleep at night. I agree, the issue is not replacing the boat, it's replacing the other guy's boat! My advice is get an appraisal and do it right!

Edited by - on

hinmo
Navigator

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USA
248 Posts

Response Posted - 11/04/2008 : 05:30:03

Ok - you all convinced me. I'll be insuring 3 boats next year (ya wanta play....ya gotta pay).

I think this society has gotten so litigious, it ruining everything. We'll be insuring our bicycles next!

Thanks for all views

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 11/04/2008 : 11:16:35

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by hinmo
 
I think this society has gotten so litigious, it ruining everything. We'll be insuring our bicycles next!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

FYI, bikes are covered under your renters/homeowners policy.

Steve A

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3466 Posts

Response Posted - 11/04/2008 : 16:31:58

Just a little trivia regarding bikes. A few years ago, on a bike bulletin board they were having a discussion about a bicycle rider that was hit by a car at night and the bicycle rider sued the bike mfr in court and won. I forgot the dollar amount but it was a lot of dough. Anyway, the bulletin board members could not figure out how a jury could fine the case against the bike mfr. Someone familiar with the case (it could have been the bicyclist's lawyer) responded on the bulletin board that the bike mfr was found at fault because the bike was not furnished with lights but more importantly...the bike mfr had no instruction manual with warnings in it indicating that reflectos and lights on the bike are required for riding when it is dark outside.

As far as insurance goes for a boat, my marina requires $300,000 liability insurance to keep the boat in a slip. I would have purchased the insurance anyway. My thought is that I would be concerned about damage to other boats. However, many years ago, when I had a 13' sailboat and would launch it at a ramp, I did not have any insurance. The chance of damaging another boat was remote and probably the idea about getting insurance never entered my mind back in those days when I was working only a year or two at my first job after college. I am not sure what I would do these days, if I had a similar small boat and no other. I guess I would be concerned about coverage for any guests that came aboard and suffered some injury. When you get your first job and have limited funds and have little experience with mishaps, getting insurance does not seem like such a priority or importance.

Edited by - on

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 11/05/2008 : 07:31:10

I consider this excellent advise. I guess I wasn't looking to add to my yearly expenditure so kind of dodged this issue but will definitely get liability.

Edited by - on

josgood
1st Mate

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USA
57 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2008 : 20:32:53

since no one has asked (or said).......are we NOT allowed to discuss insurance companies here? who all are you using?
does anyone offer replacement value?

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2008 : 22:06:39

Use the Search function--there are lots of threads, companies and rates mentioned. However, rates vary by location and other factors... BoatUS (actually CNA) and Progressive might be the ones most often referenced. With either (and probably others), you can get a quote on-line.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 11/24/2008 22:11:59

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2008 : 22:06:44

I have Progressive. They offered an "agreed value" policy. I think that's pretty common. The premium is based, in part I'm sure, on that agreed value.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2008 : 22:36:55

I have an inland marine policy for each boat with The Travelers, same as my homeowners' insurance. The premiums for each boat are a little bit over $200.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2008 : 23:34:26

With BoatUS, I pay a little over $200 (I think its $215) a year plus $30 a month when I winter in Florida.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2008 : 07:51:04

So I'm not a lawyer and all that I know about insurance is when to pay the cheque, but I do have a couple scenarios thta I wonder about...

Scenario 1. Your boat is sitting in the slip when it catches fire. Maybe a wiring problem, who knows, but a witness is there, and your boat was the first one to go up in flames. Are you responsible to pay for damage to the slip, neighbouring boats, and whatever other damage (enviro??) thta the fire causes? If so, then there is a good reason for insurance.

Scenario 2. You are out for a sail with your boss when he slips and goes overboard. With your outstanding seamanship you get him back aboard, perform CPR, and he's breathing, but it is a "life altering event" maybe he is braindead (lack of oxygen). Would it be your policy that pays the medical bills? What about the loss of income? What about chronic care? What about putting his kids through school?

Seems to me thta no matter how cheap your boat is/was either of these scenarios make insurance a lot more appealing.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2008 : 09:42:56

Originally posted by Prospector
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">So I'm not a lawyer and all that I know about insurance is when to pay the cheque, but I do have a couple scenarios thta I wonder about...

Scenario 1. Your boat is sitting in the slip when it catches fire. Maybe a wiring problem, who knows, but a witness is there, and your boat was the first one to go up in flames. Are you responsible to pay for damage to the slip, neighbouring boats, and whatever other damage (enviro??) thta the fire causes? If so, then there is a good reason for insurance.

Scenario 2. You are out for a sail with your boss when he slips and goes overboard. With your outstanding seamanship you get him back aboard, perform CPR, and he's breathing, but it is a "life altering event" maybe he is braindead (lack of oxygen). Would it be your policy that pays the medical bills? What about the loss of income? What about chronic care? What about putting his kids through school?

Seems to me thta no matter how cheap your boat is/was either of these scenarios make insurance a lot more appealing.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Scenario 1 - It depends on the facts, but you'd probably be responsible.

Scenario 2 - Depending on the facts, you'd probably not be responsible.

You don't have to be legally liable in any fact situation in order to need insurance. Every lawsuit has a winner and a loser - someone will be shown to be right, and the other will be shown to be wrong. If a person sues you under the mistaken impression that you are liable for his damages, it will require you to hire a lawyer, at considerable expense, for potentially several years of litigation, to defend yourself. The mere fact that you're not legally liable doesn't mean that you don't have to defend yourself. Insurance doesn't just pay your damages, in the event you lose a judgment. It also pays for your legal defense, if you have one.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2008 : 12:37:42

Prospector, you've painted the pictures well. That's why most marinas require at least liability insurance--the contract you sign usually stipulates that you have it. It's also why I have an umbrella policy over my boat, car, and home insurance. It costs very little, and the risks are low, but the possibilities are mind-blowing!

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 11/26/2008 : 11:13:46

I also have an umbrella policy. Cost $200 annually for $1 million coverage. Requires minimum $300,000 liability on home and auto policies, so it picks up the other $700,000. Absolutely necessary if you have teenage to young adult drivers on your auto policy!!

Edited by - dmpilc on 11/26/2008 11:14:10

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