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West Marine Epoxy Process

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BSY On Genesis in Vallejo
Deckhand

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4 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/23/2002 : 22:08:43

The transom on my C-25, 1989, WK, #5960, is not solid where the motor mounts to the transom. I know this because I removed the origional mount and installed a Fulton 1810 to support my Honda 9.9 (116lbs). While the mount was removed I could see a 3/4 inch gap between the outer and inner hull (not to be confused with the internal boat liner). As suggested on the C25 forum page and by Catalina I'm going to fill inside the transom void with West Marine epoxy using 403 filler. I'm looking for anyone that has used this product and their suggestions. I've got to fill the void through the bolt holes (a difficult process to get the product into the holes). I'm concern about the epoxy generating too much heat and causing other problems. The void may take a gallon of epoxy to fill.

Thoughts?

Thanks.

Bill

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2002 : 10:43:19

Bill,
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>a 3/4 inch gap between the outer and inner hull (not to be confused with the internal boat liner).<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>OK, I'm confused. Although I have a 1979 C-25, to the best of my knowledge, none of the C-25s are double hulled. At the motor mount on my boat, there is a 1/2" or so gap between the plywood core of the transom and the hull liner, which is the piece of fiberglass that the built-in funiture is part of. Maybe one of the technical experts (like Bill Holcomb) could clarify this point for us.

There's a recent thread in which "[url="http://www.catalina25-250.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1865"]Transom Support for Motor[/url]" is discussed, in case you missed it.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>... going to fill inside the transom void with West Marine[sic] epoxy using 403 filler ... looking for anyone that has used this product and their suggestions ... concern about the epoxy generating too much heat ... void may take a gallon of epoxy to fill.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>I've used many gallons of WEST epoxy (from Gougeon Brothers Inc.) with various additives to repair and modify boats over a period of years. The stuff works great when used according to the excellent directions and generous technical literature provided by Gougeon Brothers. You are very justified in being concerned about heat build up. Quantities much smaller than a gallon can set themselves on fire. I've seen as little as 1/2 cup smoke and boil when used with insulating additives as a gap filler in wood. A gallon is a HUGE amount of WEST epoxy to be applying as a gap filler.

If you would like to discuss transom gaps and WEST epoxy techniques by phone, feel free to give me a call at (321)784-8406.

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2002 : 11:57:53

Hi Bill,

It's been a long time since I have seen "inside" a C25 transom. And, I have really no direct experience with anything newer than a '86 model. So, your '89 and its construction specifics are not familier to me. However, if you really have a 3/4" seperation in the transom layers, you have the potential for a serious structural problem. Are you sure that you are actually able to see three specific layers? The outside of the transom - a gap - the inside of the transom - a gap - and then the interior liner? If so, I would recommend that you contact a fiberglass pro in your region. There may be more to the story than what you want to take on yourself.

That-having-been-said, if you do decide to tackle filling a 3/4" gap with West Epoxi, I would recommend mixing small quantities and letting each "layer" cure before you mix the next. My brother just finished restoring a 30 ft Dunnigan sloop built in 1940. Part of the restoration included replacing all 68 oak ribs. We laminated the replacement ribs out of 1/4" by 1.25" oak strips - using West Epoxi. Each rib ended up with four strips - making each 1" X 1.25" We usually worked in epoxi quantities of about 1/2 to 3/4 cup at a time. And, even in these small quantities, the epoxi would sometimes "go-off" with considerable heat generated.........once we threw the epoxi (plastic cup and all) into 5 gallons of water. It "boiled" there for nearly half an hour........water bubbling the whole time. Mixing a whole gallon in one container would be asking for trouble.

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2002 : 21:38:41

The only 2 layers on the transom of our '85 are the hull and the liner above the shelf at the foot of the quarterberth. The gap between them is filled with foam. If you have no core in there, I'd suggest putting Starboard plates both inside and outside to spread the load over a larger area. You could shoot some of your own foam in there, but be sure it's non-expanding. That would be a lot safer than large gobs of epoxy. Lots of us have heavy 4-strokes mounted to that transom, and I haven't heard of any breaking it. But a backer on both sides, in my opinion, is a good idea for a heavy, high-thrust engine. That's what I did, and it seems to be as solid as a rock.

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 09/24/2002 21:43:54

Edited by - on

BSY On Genesis in Vallejo
Deckhand

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4 Posts

Response Posted - 09/25/2002 : 00:15:58

Outstanding replies.....

I admit that I'm over cautious at times (comes from my flying days) but when I see the fiberglass transom flex in due to the weight of the engine I get concern. This has also been observed on all other 25s with the 4 stroke.

You have convinced me not to use the epoxy as originally planned. Not sure what to do at this point unless I have the entire transom opened and reconstructed. The captain/wife has been wanting a larger boat <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>.

Let me clarify the construction that I have observed:

Ouside transom fiberglass - then ~1" gap - then interior (inside boat)transom - then - ~5/16" gap - then - inner boat liner

outside| 1"gap | inside5/16"gap |(liner that makes up inside of boat furnishing)
Not to scale and poor attempt to present construction.

The transom on the '89 model seems to not be solid except 4" in from the outside edges of the transom all the way around. The center sections seem to be hollow.

Again, thanks for the replies. (Mr. Sisson I will take you up on the call.)

Bill

genesisbsy@att.net

Edited by - on

Dave Seely
1st Mate

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46 Posts

Response Posted - 09/25/2002 : 23:05:58

I hate to bring up such an unpleasent thought but, could that gap between the inner and outer hull have once been the plywood core of the transom? I can't imagine any reason for two seperate layers or how it would have been produced from the mold.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5937 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2002 : 09:10:33

Bill,

Why don't you call Catalina and discuss your situation, and see how the transom is supposed to be layered, and what they suggest. They are certainly capable of providing the best insight.

Steve Milby "Captiva Wind" C-25 T/FK #2554

Edited by - on

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2002 : 11:18:14

I've an '83 Catalina and though it's been several years since I replaced the motor mount, memory dictates that there was only one layer of material,(plywood encased in plastic) at the lower level of the transom where the mount bolts passed through. When I was installing the ssb antennae chain plate on the upper portion of the transom there was a double shell, a real pain in the arse, requiring an external port to facilitate installation. On the '83 the mount is on the starboard side, perhaps that's pertenant.

Val on "CALISTA" #3936

Val Bisagni

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