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Insurance recomendation

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FrankV
Navigator

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USA
135 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/24/2002 : 10:36:46

After many years at our marina, suddenly house insurance liability isn't good enought. They now want to be named as an additional insured. I guess we have to buy a liability policy now. Does anybody have any recomendations?

Edited by - on

pwhallon
Admiral

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USA
694 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2002 : 11:28:46

Hi,

Try BoatUS.com.

Paul

Edited by - on

Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2002 : 11:39:39

I used Boat US all the time I had Wind Lass. It was very reasonable. If I recall it was under 200 a year for full coverage.

Doug&Ruth
Boatless in Seattle
Tacoma Wa.

Edited by - on

ssteakley
Captain

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USA
467 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2002 : 11:55:09

Frank,
there is another thread at http://www.catalina25-250.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1774

Several good comments about insurance,
Steve Steakley

Edited by - on

MarkTM
Navigator

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USA
178 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2002 : 12:24:39

My independent agent recommended a carrier that specializes in marine insurance including commercial marine, Seahorse Underwriters (somehow affiliated with St. Paul). Here is a link to a page I found: http://www.stpaul.com/www-businesses/content/globalmarine/seahorse.asp

I would ask your agent about them. I am very happy with their product and pricing. Of course, you mileage may vary depending upon your vessel and geographic region.

Here is another link: http://www.stpaul.com/www-businesses/content/globalmarine/index.asp

Mark Melchior
C250wb "Lorelei" #384
[url="http://www.texassailor.com/"]<img src="http://www.texassailor.com/texas.gif " border=0>[/url]
(click flag to visit Central Texas Sailor)

Edited by - on

jellyfish
Navigator

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USA
171 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2002 : 17:06:44

Frank, do you have a boat policy now. if so just call you agent and have the company name your marina an "addtional insured" it shouldnt cost you anything. If it does shop for another carrier.

Dan

Edited by - on

FrankV
Navigator

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USA
135 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2002 : 17:17:12

Dan,
All of these years I have just shown them my homeowners policy that lists the boat under the liability coverage. The problem is that the homeowners insurance will not name a marina as an additional insured for just the boat. So, we were getting by cheap on the liability and self insuring for the hull coverage.

Edited by - on

Doug
Captain

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USA
457 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2002 : 20:35:55

Talk to the same agent that insures your house. They can probably write you a boat policy. While you're there, ask them how much for an umbrella/ PLUP policy. They're cheap and privide a lot of liability protection on and off the boat. By writting multiple lines (house, car, boat) they might be able to get you a better rate.

Doug - #1913 Noeta

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 09/25/2002 : 08:23:14

Three simple words, it doesn't matter who the carrier is

Replacement Cost Policy!!!

Edited by - on

Doug
Captain

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USA
457 Posts

Response Posted - 09/25/2002 : 09:45:12

It doesn't matter who the carrier is?
Then it doesn't matter if the staff is local or long distance.
Doesn't matter if you get paid in a couple of days or a couple of months.
Doesn't matter if they run out of money after a CAT.
Doesn't matter what kind of service you get.
Doesn't matter if they even have a claims staff to help you.
As someone whose job is to stand in damaged houses, apartments, and boats I can tell you that it DOES matter when you actually have a clam.

Doug - #1913 Noeta

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/25/2002 : 10:01:57

Whew! I saw THAT one coming! Friends who've had a few claims when their C-30 washed up on the rocks and a truck smashed into the bow have had very good experiences with BoatUS (CNA), so we followed the crowd and went with them. From reading their excellent quarterly, I have the feeling that they pay attention to what's happening out there. That magazine is unique in the insurance industry.

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - on

ronrryan
Admiral

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USA
561 Posts

Response Posted - 09/25/2002 : 10:13:34

IF you are a USPS member you are eligible for a policy with St Paul in a pool of just USPS members. I have had this for three boats now, but no claims to report service on, if I didnt have this would surely have Boat/us, have heard good things from all who have it, fair winds, ron sr sk Orion SW FL

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 09/25/2002 : 11:53:58

I've never had a claim. . . but "Even Chance" is insured by State Farm, which also covers my home and cars. That makes for a BIG discount.

Brooke

Edited by - on

jellyfish
Navigator

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USA
171 Posts

Response Posted - 09/25/2002 : 13:22:15

Frank, most homeowners insurance policies do not cover Liability for watercraft except for rowboats and canoes. If you have been showing your marina your homeowners policy for liability for a C25 somebody didnt know what they were looking at. go get you a boat policy with liability limits of at least 100k and as someone else mentioned a umbrella policy is a great value!

Duane, you need a lesson in insurance! I hope you dont get it the hard way. replacement cost, actual cash value, funtional replacement cost, agreed amount, etc, are insurance terms that dont mean as much when talking about hull coverage as they do when you are talking about homeowners insurance. The MOST IMPORTANT THING IS THE CARRIER AND YOUR AGENT! Ive been in the property and casualty insurance business for 18 years and it galls me to hear someone make a statement like that!

Edited by - on

FrankV
Navigator

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USA
135 Posts

Response Posted - 09/25/2002 : 17:32:53

Jellyfish,

For at least 15 years I have gotten a no cost rider on my house policy that covers the Cat 25 liability. It is also included in my umbrella liability policy as well. The problem is that the marina now wants to be listed as an additional insured.

Oh well, my homeowners agent came up with a $125 per year policy with some hull coverage.

On hull coverage vs plain liability, I have taken the self insured route on my cars and boats for years. It forces me to take better care of them, and I take the extra money saved on the premium and put it aside. I have almost enough saved for a Catalina 30, or used auto, in my insurance slush fund.

Frank

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/25/2002 : 19:01:00

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I have almost enough saved for a Catalina 30, or used auto, in my insurance slush fund.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
Frank: If I break my boat, I get to have it fixed... If you break your boat, you get to have a bigger boat. Good work!!

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - on

pwhallon
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
694 Posts

Response Posted - 09/25/2002 : 19:32:36

Hi,

I still think BoatUS is the way to go.

They have towing, trailering and all kinds of nifty insurance riders for boaters. I have enough insurance to sink the Queen Mary II and walk away.

By the way...what if you run into that million dollar Viking canyon runner. How will State Farm handle that?????

My neighbor, the houseboater who talked my other neighbor out of buying the Marinette, didn't know what a survey was or what a towing policy was.

He put his "party barge" on his home policy. I fear that homowners riders may not be thorough enough to cover all potential boating claims...ie salvage vs towing...etc.

Paul

Edited by - on

jellyfish
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
171 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2002 : 13:06:39

Frank, your agent did a good job for you by covering your liability by endorsement aka "rider". this is also commonly done to take care of your liability for rental property. further assuming a good company, $125 yr is a great deal on your boat policy, and because you bought from the agent that has your homeowners and your umbrella I feel comfy that you are well covered! Unless the boat policy is written with a AM Best A rated company the HO and UMB carrier wouldnt write over it. Sound like you got a good agent. As far as the money saved on comp/coll, hull, etc that goes back to the old story about buy term and invest the difference. It is a great idea if you religiously save the money, bad idea if you cant or if the risk is too great. ie: I live in the Panhandle of Florida, I wouldnt think of not insured my C25 with all the storms and hurricanes here. I pay around $350 a year for my boat policy. In the past 4yrs I have made claims totaling $4200 for a new motor and repairs to a pier that the boat caused when she got loose in a storm. do the math and you will see that it would take me about 10 yrs to come out ahead without the insurance saving $350 a year.

Paul, so does every other company that writes boat insurance. Im a member of BoatUS, great for discounts on marinas and all the little specials they have. For insurance go see a professional in your neighborhood that you can count on if and when you need him.

Edited by - on

pwhallon
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
694 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2002 : 13:38:43

Hi,

I tried to use my "neighborhood professional" to insure a 1992 Caravelle 17' bowrider. As generic a boat as one can find.

I dropped them after a few months because they couldn't figure out what kind of boat it was. My bill was wrong, the boat decription was wrong...etc. After many phone calls to try and get it through to them what it was I gave up.

The company was State Farm. They carry my home, cars, life, and other things but not the boat.

P

Edited by - on

Doug
Captain

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USA
457 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2002 : 20:20:38

"By the way...what if you run into that million dollar Viking canyon runner. How will State Farm handle that?????"

Same way it handles any liability claim involving any boat.

I don't want to get in a long thread ranting or raving about State Farm or any other insurance company. I'd be a little out of line doing that. It would be easy for me to tell horror stories about most any insurance company, and I'm obviously biased towards the company that gives me a paycheck <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>.

All I'm saying is don't put low rates above service and stability. And don't assume that all of State Farm doesn't know anything about boats. True, not every agent or agent know the difference between a dingy and a bilge pump, but they all have the resources to find out. They remain the largest boat insurer in the country. Must be doing something right.

Doug - #1913 Noeta

Edited by - on

pwhallon
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
694 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2002 : 11:18:48

Doug,

I'm not slamming State Farm. They have been our family insurer since 1984.

I didn't know they were big on insuring boats. When I tried to insure the Caravelle they seemed not to have a clue as to what to do. This made me very nervous.

Honestly, I would rather have the boat on my other policies.

I am very scared of the posibility of someone getting hurt on my boat or running into that hypothetical Viking. After the Caravelle fiasco I decided to try BoatUS. My perception has been (maybe wrongfully) that boatUS insurance would cover me more thoroughly.

What if my boat caught fire and burned the dock down to the water? That has happened at my marina. My dock-neighbors boat alone cost him $110,000.00. Thats like 11 or 12 average used Catalina 25's.

What if some lawyer found a loop hole in my policy and decided to take my house or something? Actually, my dock-neighbors boat cost more than my house!

This fear of liability has a silver lining too. I don't drink a drop of booze when operating my boat. The DNR around here loves those BUI's. I'm no tee-totaler either...just scared to death of hurting someone.

Paul

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5937 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2002 : 12:23:21

I use Metropolitan for my homeowner's, auto and boat insurance, and both their rates and service are excellent. My premium for the boat policy hasn't gone up since 1981. I haven't checked the language of the policy in years, but my recollection is that, when I first bought the policy, even the mast and spars were covered if the mast fell for any reason. If you are otherwise insured by Metropolitan, you should definitely ask them about boat insurance.

Steve Milby "Captiva Wind" C-25 T/FK #2554

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2002 : 14:09:14

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
It doesn't matter who the carrier is?
Then it doesn't matter if the staff is local or long distance.
Doesn't matter if you get paid in a couple of days or a couple of months.
Doesn't matter if they run out of money after a CAT.
Doesn't matter what kind of service you get.
Doesn't matter if they even have a claims staff to help you.
As someone whose job is to stand in damaged houses, apartments, and boats I can tell you that it DOES matter when you actually have a clam.

Doug - #1913 Noeta
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Doug,

Easy boy, whoa.....First of all, I had a dozen clam at the clam bake regatta last week....

Your correct, all those things do matter, but I think you know as well as I do that wasn't the intent of post. When you find a good service provider, get a replacement cost policy.

dw

PS - in the days of 800 numbers, I am not too concerned where they are located...

Duane Wolff
"The Flying Wasp"
C-25, #401 std,sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d603b3127cce9f858f0ef3ef0000001010" border=0>

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2002 : 14:13:04

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Frank, most homeowners insurance policies do not cover Liability for watercraft except for rowboats and canoes. If you have been showing your marina your homeowners policy for liability for a C25 somebody didnt know what they were looking at. go get you a boat policy with liability limits of at least 100k and as someone else mentioned a umbrella policy is a great value!

Duane, you need a lesson in insurance! I hope you dont get it the hard way. replacement cost, actual cash value, funtional replacement cost, agreed amount, etc, are insurance terms that dont mean as much when talking about hull coverage as they do when you are talking about homeowners insurance. The MOST IMPORTANT THING IS THE CARRIER AND YOUR AGENT! Ive been in the property and casualty insurance business for 18 years and it galls me to hear someone make a statement like that!<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Jellyfish,
I fully understand that a carrier and agent need to be the most important thing. Especially since I got my start in the business world as a Life Health agent. However, maybe I should restate my post above. "While shopping for a carrier, make sure to have them quote you a replacement cost policy."

dw

Duane Wolff
"The Flying Wasp"
C-25, #401 std,sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d603b3127cce9f858f0ef3ef0000001010" border=0>

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2002 : 15:04:27

So what is "service"?? One possible way to get a measurement of this nebulous term is to go to a fiberglass repair outfit in your area and ask them about insurance carriers. They may not be paid directly by the insurer (as with autobody claims), but they probably get an earful about the good and bad experiences of their customers. They may decline to make a recommendation, but they may tell you who to stay away from, or what penetrating questions to ask.

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - on

Doug
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
457 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2002 : 19:34:37

Something that hit my desk today, just a footnote to the discussion:
Operator of a small fishing boat was pushed by some current and wind into a 32 ft trawler. Some screws on the little boat ($) but three big scratches down the hull of the big boat($$$). Gotta love the liability coverage...

Doug - #1913 Noeta

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