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Admin
Forum Admin

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460 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/16/2009 : 18:40:53

We are considering adding a new 'Members' site to compliment the association current site.

The intention is to elevate the value of membership.

Here's a brief overview of the things it 'might' include.

PLEASE READ ALL OF THIS BEFORE RESPONDING - And then please keep your responses short (so don't quote the whole thing

)

Note: I am a professional website programmer, online data systems are my speciality, I have developed e-commerce and online mgmt systems for a wide range of companies from small mom&pop sites to international corporations.
Obviously there is a lot of work involved in a system like this and it's my intent that should I decide to proceed with the project, then I will make it a service that I will market to other associations.

Disclosure notice:
The Assocation would in effect be the guinea pigs for this project.
If I proceed with this project, I do intend to make it a profit center for my company.

Member access:

<ul>
<li>
Membership - Self management of joining and renewals (online option to pay via pay pal)
.. If someone wishes to pay by check they will be able to print out a renewal invoice and mail it in, then mgmt will process the event.
.. Online password recovery
.. Members will be able to manage the content of their own profile.
.. Members will be able to join/renew for multiple years Membership
.. Members wlll automaticaly receive email renewal notices (several!)

</li>
<li>
Image hosting - Members will be able to upload images to the site for reference in the forum.
.. Images will include title and description
.. Members will be able to cut and paste a code chunk to paste into the forum to display the images in the forum.
</li>
<li>
Slideshows - Members will be able to select and sort images for inclusion in slideshows. (see Image hosting above)
</li>
<li>
Blog - Members will be able to maintain their own blog, including images (see above)
</li>
<li>
Sail Log - Members will be able to maintain an online log of their sailing activities
.. capable mobile phones will be able to update the logs
</li>
<li>
Maintainence Log - Members will be able to record maintenance events online
.. Members will be able to set maintenance events with reminders that will be emailed when the date arrives
</li>
<li>
Sail Plan - Members will be able to post a sail plan
.. Members will be able to complete an online form and print it out for distribution.
.. Members will be able to provide restricted access to the sail plan to emergency contacts
</li>
<li>
GPS History - Members will be able to upload GPS data for display on google maps
</li>
<li>
Data - Members will be able to download their blog and other data for safe keeping.
</li>
<li>
Access - Members will be able to restrict access to their content
.. Open: Anyone can 'view', Closed: only account holder can view, Restricted: requires authorization code to view.
</ul>
Mgmt access:
<ul>
<li>
Management access controls - Mgmt will be able to assign mgmt access to several people

<li>
Data - Mgmt will be able to backup, and download the association membership data for safe keeping
..Mgmt will be able to restore, and upload previously downloaded data
</li>
<li>
Membership - Mgmt will be able to manually change/add memberships
</li>
<li>
Reports - Mgmt will be able to view a variety of membership reports.
.. (by a variety of criteria: eg. Boat model, Age, Location, etc.)
</li>
<li>
Email - Mgmt will be able to send emails to members by list
.. Mgmt will be able to list members by various criteria and then send and email all/ selected members of the list.
</li>
[*]
Renewals - Mgmt will be able to view list of members due renewal (see Email)
.. Mgmt will be able to view list of unrenewed memberships (I didn't like the term 'expired')
</li>

[*]
Image Censorship - Mgmt will be able to view all new images and censor if felt necessary
.. Because the membership process would be automatic, spammers could post inappropriate images which we would want to delete.
</li>
</ul>

As mentioned above, this is just a possibility! Your input is welcome.

Particularly we are insterested in additional features you would be interested in.

Paul

Web Editor

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

Members Avatar

USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 01/16/2009 : 18:55:08

I like it, especially being able to host photos on the site instead of a third party site. How about being able to redirect to an existing blog like blogspot.com? It should be tied via the member's logon and be able to utilize the "active topics" refresh so that you can see both the regular forums & members forums at the same time.

Being able to file a sail plan seems like we might be creating an expectation that the plan will be referenced and actually tracked by someone. Will this be the case? I don't think this is a bad idea, but I think it needs to be carefully thought out with a standardized form & full disclosure on how the sail plan will be handled by the assn. in the event of someone not following up at the other end of their trip. Do we call the coasties in that event?

I will volunteer to help test the software.

Edited by - delliottg on 01/16/2009 19:10:46

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 01/17/2009 : 09:09:08

I think that it will at least dilute and, more likely, kill the strongest element of this association, namely, the Association Forum. I'm afraid that, eventually, this forum will die. Paul's proposal seems to be considerably more cumbersome to navigate for the non-techno sailors among us. (OK, me!) Hell,I don't even recall the password to get into the current member section. Just this morning's change in the way this was posted made it more difficult (albeit minimally) to access the topic. I think sub-dividing the forum more will decrease its use.

I'm sure that the intent is to supplement the exisiting forum. But, I think it will end up killing it. The "Sail Log", "Maintenance Log", and "Blog" would hold just about everything that is the current content of the forum only we'd have to go to a few different places to find them.

Finally, I think it would shrink our numbers further. The best parts of this forum would be closed to the public so therefore, the incentive to particpate by writing a check would be lessened simply beacause the wealth of knowledge that is this association will be hidden.

Paul, I appreciate your candor regarding your business plans for this concept. I'm simply afraid that your gain could very well result in the Association's loss.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 01/17/2009 : 09:44:24

Call me skeptical, but I'm a little leery when a member of the Association Staff, or any member really, suggests implementing something to elevate the value of membership in the association with the explicit intent of it being a "profit center" for their own personal company. Sort of reminds me of the time when a trusted former officer hijacked my confidential association data to use in his company's marketing plan...Yes, I'm still bitter!

If you are planning this to be a profit making, personal venture that the association would ultimately have to pay for with my dues, I would think at a minimum you should resign from your staff position, and maybe your association membership, so that there would be no conflict of interest between your for-profit business and the governing of this non-profit association.

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
5368 Posts

Response Posted - 01/17/2009 : 10:35:27

Paul -
I'm a member and don't mind paying my dues, and I also appreciate non-members' info and comments in the Forum - which is the main benefit to me. I appreciate it so much I realize someone has to pay for it, so I do, and I would encourage all Forum users to likewise become members voluntarily!

I'm also a public radio listener and member, so it's roughly the same - 11% donate, 89% freeload.

I would suggest that we make the "membership splash screen" come up every time we log in, make it something you have to see anytime you come on the site. Doesn't have to be obnoxious though, just a repeated reminder.

But I don't want to see the service narrowed only to members. We would not get the richness of thoght, or the variety of info, sentiments and entertainment that we do if it were limited to members only.

If this came to a vote, which it well could - I would vote against it. I like the type of environment you are proposing with lots of features and applications, but am willing to forego those in favor of diversity.

As we all know, "Content is King", and we would probably wind up with an awesome website with all kinds of features, that was much scarcer in the Juice that we come here for.

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 01/17/2009 : 11:32:37

Agreed, too much, but VERY IMPRESSIVE! The whole package sounds like more than could/should be swallowed immediately. I think there is value to the idea, as you are essentially creating a yacht management system which would allow everyone to see where you went and when you changed the oil last. I like the gps tracking idea, although I'm not sure I could figure out how to upload data from my handheld or even from my mega plotter for that matter. Multiple steps, multiple manuals... And I am a toy freak who really has all of the toys now. - SSB Pactor II upgrade to PactorIII is my next project.

I think you should build it and run it as a test site for the boating industry and seek out yacht management opp's. I'll help test. I record all kinds of fun stuff. Technically all yachts need a waste management plan, a sewage discharge plan, a fresh water plan, fuel plan, and an engine maintenance plan to meet ABYC/Coastie/Local Authorities standards for safety/environmental protection. You have to log stuff like, who did your last pump out, where your oil was disposed, where your trash went and when, when you fueled up last and how many hours running since. This kinda data applies more to a C&C39 than a C25. The reason some of this data is important for larger vessels is that in case of an accident, my log will show that I carry 80 gals of fuel and have only been burning for 8 hours @.6 per hour, so my - heaven forbid - sunken vessel is capable of leaking quite a bit of diesel. Kapeesh? I understand the need for these systems and do believe there might be a market for this - good luck!

BUT, we could use some of the ideas proposed. And um, if the original thread dies, will anyone know this one is here?

sten

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

Members Avatar

USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 01/17/2009 : 11:52:47

A healthy dialog, glad to see it.

A couple of notes:
At present the Assn Members area (link is top right of all forum pages) is an area that is restricted to members. Each member gets a password upon joining. Non members do not have access to that area. It is a small part of the association membership, which in my mind the primary benefit is the mainsheet. Their are a couple of discount codes in the member area, I personally have taken advantage of one of them when I purchased my new 9.8 Nissan from outboards online, I got a 10% discount !

The reason I created a new forum for this discussion was simple. If it's not appropriate to the association, then it would be easy to eliminate this (the Membership Category ).

The concept is to keep the catalina-capri-25s.org site as is with a link inside the Members area to the new features. The fact that they would be hosted on a sepearate domain would be virtually unknown to visitors. The additional features area would retain the look of this site.

My reason for disclosing that I would turn it into a profit center for my company is simple - it would take quite a bit of work to develop. And should I leave the assocation (move up etc.) then if I developed it just for the association it would become defunct and that would not benefit all concerned. (BTW, I'm a Rotarian and subscribe as best I can to the Rotary 4 way test)

Regarding diluting the forum, that is not my intent and I would work to avoid that! The forum is the primary value to all of us, I do not see anything that would be more supportive to our community than the forum in it's current design.

Several members already maintain blogs online, if they are free then there is advertising on those blogs, our blog would not include advertising.

Several members host their pics on shutterbug, google, etc. our image hosting feature would provide the codes to cut and paste directly into the forum similar to

[img http://www.someimagesite.com/myid/myimage01.jpg /img]

I use a pdf file online to prepare my sailplans, but I can't store it and update it later, the method I suggest will allow 'members' to record a sail plan online, then print it out and distribute it as is recommended by all agencies concerned. They would be able to email the sailplan to whoever. Association reaction to sailplans would not be a feature (liablity issue). Members could send the sail plan to anyone they choose.

To my knowledge, we do not use the forum to record sailing logs or maintainence logs, so providing members with that option would appear a value.

I have researched for several months trying to locate an existing service that provides all the features that I added to the concept, found some very cool stuff, but nothing that got anywhere near what I'm proposing.

The association would incurr no fees for this, hence why I indicated the association would in effect be the guinea pigs (or Beta Testers).

Please keep the dialog going.

Thanks.

Paul

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/17/2009 : 12:30:54

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Admin
 We are considering adding...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Paul, could you clarify who "We" is/are? The association board? If so, and if this is free to the association, and if you make it a profit-seeking venture for others, and if you "move up" and out of the association, then does it by default become no longer free?

I applaud your creativity, but (1) I suspect many of these features apply more to a true cruising association (C-25/250s are not generally used as cruisers)... and (2) this does have a slight scent of a conflict of interest. I can't predict how it would affect this wide-open forum environment, but I think there's bound to be some intent (even if unconscious) to draw people away from this and into that. I believe our open environment has tremendous value--to owners and to prospective owners--and has been cited frequently as a key reason for selecting the C-25 or 250 (or maybe Capri). Openness is what does that. I have always been for minimizing (or even eliminating) the closed parts of our site.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 01/17/2009 12:31:34

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 01/17/2009 : 13:19:29

I'm sure there is no intent to diminish the current forum and I believe your intentions to be helpful are honest ones. I just think it would be a natural consequence

I'm not sure I understand the value of posting a sailplan here if it isn't going to be open for comments.

Anything to help picture posting to the existing forum would be terrific

No, we don’t use the forum for sailing or maintenance logs per se, but I just think that this is the stuff that a lot of the stories we read here are made of so this content would not likely be entered twice.

I tried to be really clever and insert my comments amid quotes from Paul's response but..... I'm just not that clever.

One other thought occurs to me. It is generally agreed, I think, that this forum, as is, is perhaps the among best of its kind. Why fix something that ain't broke?

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

Members Avatar

USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 01/17/2009 : 14:47:23

I think there is a degree of misunderstanding at this point.

my suggestion will not modify this forum! the new 'membership site' will not have a seperate forum.

It is conceiveable that the 'service' could have a forum but it's purpose would be to provide information about the service to users of the seveice.

Let me state clearly: There would be no charge to the association, even if I left the association.

I approached the officers of the associaion and we discussed this in several of the association virtual board meetings. This Forum category is purely exploritory. If the service already existed, I suspect that several members would be asking if we could subscribe to it, and even might subscribe to it as individuals.

Much of the info in the service would be private to the member, such as: Maintainence logs, Sailing Logs, Sail Plan, etc. The Blog and images would be visible to the public per member election. ie. If you don't want your stuff visible to the public, then it won't be.

The whole purpose of this 'discussion' is to get a feel for if and how the 'members' would use it.

Don't be bashful, keep the pros and cons coming.

Thanks.

Paul

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/17/2009 : 16:12:26

Thanks--that clarifies things a little... Understand that we are only trying to, as John says, avoid "fixing" something that is very far from "broke". Adding to it is not a bad thing as long as the addition doesn't tend to be a detraction. Messing with this incredible success is something some of us can be predicted to resist.

As for the maintenance schedule, that would seem to be more useful for my car than for any boat I've owned. My boat maintenance tends to be a standard list for every off-season. My car, on the other hand, might be overdue as I speak!

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 01/17/2009 : 17:01:58

Paul, I like the idea of having a "box of tools" for the members. As I understand it, one would not see any changes to the forum as it is today. One would never even know this area exist unless you clicked on the Members Section.

From what I gather, this area would not distract or diminish the forum as it is today. This is not going to be an area that people could go and isolate them self from others on the forum, only a place that restricts access to the "tools" just as it does today for the couple of benefits we have now like the outboard motor discount.

I see this as a great incentive to join.

I like it.

Edited by - on

DoubleD
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
61 Posts

Response Posted - 01/17/2009 : 18:14:13

I like the idea, especially posting pics. I always thought the paid members should get more for their money. Lurkers already get a lot of benefit for nothing. I thought the Tech Tips should go into the passworded members section. An added value of being a paid member.

As long as the modifications don't cost us, I think we should try it.

Edited by - on

crystal_blue
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
70 Posts

Response Posted - 01/17/2009 : 21:24:29

Paul, it seems like a great idea to me.

I do somewhat share John's concern about the diminishment of the current forum, primarily because of your proposed blog feature. Last year, the tech guys at my law school revamped the website and added the ability to blog as well as a discussion forum. What they found was that with all the discussion going on via the forum and by the school's e-mail list, no one ever blogged--it was redundant. We'd already said everything we had to say (and remember, you're talking about four hundred wannabe lawyers here!).

If an active forum can cause a blog targeted towards the same audience to go stagnant, it strikes me that the reverse is also true.

--Jim

Edited by - crystal_blue on 01/17/2009 21:26:52

britinusa
Web Editor

Members Avatar

USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 01/17/2009 : 21:39:49

Very good point Jim.

There are some here that maintain blogs, some of those blogs are of general content and some centered about sailing.

The interaction that takes place on this extremely active forum is not unique, but it is a great example of the power of community.

I can imagine that some members would promote their blog here no matter where the blog was hosted. So, that some blogs were hosted on my service (assuming I build it) should not be an issue.

The reason I considered adding a blog to my system was based upon a pet peeve of mine. I detest having to enter my info in a dozen place, so if my info was in my membership profile and that same info could be used to supply some base data for a blog, sailing log, etc. etc. then it would be more useful than disparate information. If I added a picture to my blog, then it should be available for use elsewhere (like here on the forum) similarly, the images should be available for slideshows, and for any other use that I wished to use them.

I follow several sailing blogs, some of them not associated with members or non-members here. I'm certain I'm not the only one.

However, I get a great deal of 'community' here, and I'm serious that I would not do anything that negatively impacted this forum.

Paul

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

1520 Posts

Response Posted - 01/18/2009 : 07:55:03

Interesting idea! I agree with the "ain't broke" reservations, and I have 2 comments.

- Mock-ups
It's difficult to envision any implementation of a software concept, so it may be helpful to provide mock-ups or further details about the design. If the web screens would look like the current Forum pages, then that may be resolved.

- Royalties
You propose using the Association resources in beta-testing, so could you foresee providing a small royalty from the future income? This income stream could be used to support Association activities, or possibly expand them. Issues of tax status and legal liability might also arise from this arrangement.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

Members Avatar

USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 01/18/2009 : 10:39:03

My initial reaction was the knee jerk "if it ain't broke....", but after a little reflection, I think having all those feature a click away from the forum would be great. I currently log into the members area every couple of weeks, but I would make more use of it with the added features. With this public form as the initial presentation, the newbies and potential newbies would still be able to post and most discussions would still take place here. I occasionally read blogs, but I don't subscribe to any for reasons similar to Paul's. Having them accessible on site would be a real plus. A full featured and professionally designed and maintained website for the price of the occasional glitch would be a steal.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 01/18/2009 : 11:20:16

Paul, thank you for taking the time and initiative to look for ways to improve the Association. I am a fan of some extra benefits for paying members. I especially like the self-service concept of paying memberships, posting photos, etc.

At the same time I value a free and open forum for all who have an interest in our boats. I think your proposal can satisfy both needs. Let most general content stay in the general section and put some additional extra features in the members section.

As for the potential profit issue I am not concerned. Looks to me like you are willing to do the work to the benefit of the Association and that you would like to market the tool if it works. To me that is a win-win. Perhaps a written agreement between you and the Association guaranteeing free use of the tool would calm any fears over this.

Thanks again for your work on the Association web site!

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 01/18/2009 : 12:12:58

I don't think it's a "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" kind of thing, but more like, "If it's working great, don't fix it"

The proposed ideas seems awfully familiar to what SailNet has been/is doing. From some of there PR...

SailNet.com, the world’s largest online sailing community, has launched a re-designed website with many new and exciting features and upgrades to enhance users’ experience. These changes include new forums, photo galleries, blogs, boat reviews and classifieds. 

If you ask me, it's a bit of a mess.

Without question, the greatest thing about this association, and this site, is its openness and accessibility by both members and non-members alike, and without the active participation of everyone, this site is diminished. Building a wall to put increasingly members only content behind seems counter to what this open association/forum is all about and may dilute participation on the forums.

Edited by - on

DJAnderson
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
29 Posts

Response Posted - 01/18/2009 : 22:23:06

Paul, you have a lot of good ideas here, and I suspect that there are a number of sailors out there who would benefit from such a service. However, you will likely have trouble getting folks to pay for it as all of those features are avaialble (albeit in disparate locations/applications) for free. So, this brings me to my point to add to this thread: If you think you can make money on it, go for it. But, I don't think it should be specifically attached as a membership 'benefit' for this association. Keep the association forum/web site simple as others have said. Build your site on your own and if C25/250 owners (and anybody else for that matter) sign up (and presumably pay for it), then great. Avoid the conflict of interest of our administrator trying to make money off the association.

Edited by - on

Ericson33
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
892 Posts

Response Posted - 01/19/2009 : 00:25:53

First, why all the different forums, it served us all well with the general, 25,250, capri25,and swap meet. Every time I log in I find another fourm topic, who is choosing to do this, and why?

Second, does the fourm software not support images? Every php fourm I have worked with has some kind of attach image code?

Third, the idea of a blog sounds fun, but if members are not building a blog now, why would they start one? I have had my own website for the Capri 25, started and ran the yahoo site, had my own blog, ect. But I have to agree with the fact that I am lucky enough to remember the fourm login and password, I have no idea what the membership login is because I never use it.

Four, the market right now for leasure activities is low, I myself made it to the lake last year a couple of times. The time nessasary to invest in using a site like you are proposing will only be for a select group.

Last, the membership needs something fresh to drive us all to use the site more, post more ideas, updates, upgrades, and tech tips, we as a group should brainstorm on what this ONE thing might be. We need to bring people to the site for information, and keep them here as members.

Sorry for any typo's, I am on my phone

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

Members Avatar

USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 01/19/2009 : 05:50:47

I don't particularly like quoting folks, in a disucssion that tends to personalize the issues, so I'll avoid doing that here.

Two points made in all the above: a) It's a possiblity - give us your input b) need something fresh.

The image issue is real, this forum does not natively handle images, and shifting to another forum software is a bid deal.

The membership issue is real, it's really difficult at present to keep track of the valid memberships and impossible with the current setup to provide members with easy to access member info. We currently pay quite a bit to maintain our membership roster and that is a charge to our association.

So even if we expanded the site to just include those two things (image uploads and membership mgmt) that would be a major step.

My concept was to provide both of those features. The fact that the member data would be at hand would make it comparitively easy to add the other items.

Sadly the majority of the very few responses have not been very positive.

Would you use the image upload if it was available?
Would you renew your membership if you could do so easily online (when due!)
Would you file a sail plan as mentioned above.
Would you keep a sail log (for your own use, not public unless you choose)

???

Paul

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 01/19/2009 : 09:45:47

While I see functionality to the photo uploads, I don't think the site needs a wholesale change to facilitate that. Since I am not a techno-guru, I may be wrong.

It seems to me that the membership info should be in an access (or other) database which can automatically generate a mailout (email or paper) to send out renewals. The membership should be able to access the D-Base to get their information, but the information should be protected from prying eyes (I do have 2 kids and an ex-wife - security matters somewhat to me.)

I put together my own sailplans and leave them with the marina office and our club so that our slip can be re-rented while I'm out(Club rules). Also everyone in my office and my family at home know about my sailing plans - and are sick of hearing them.

We keep a semi-accurate log. The data in it would do little good posted here. Our data is more technical in nature. Barometric pressure, tempreature, heading, windspeed and so on.

What would be nice to see here (and I would pay for in a members area) is a "waypoints file" which need only be a table with 5 columns. The columns could be "region" (east coast, west coast, great lakes, inland, etc.) "Feature" (which could include shoals, anchorages, marinas, etc.), "Northing", "Easting", and "link to image". If members generated the data to populate the table, we would quickly have a database of worthwhile cruising data, all sourced and easily accessed.

Edited by - Prospector on 01/19/2009 09:47:46

DJAnderson
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
29 Posts

Response Posted - 01/19/2009 : 09:51:17

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by britinusa
 
Would you use the image upload if it was available?
Would you renew your membership if you could do so easily online (when due!)
Would you file a sail plan as mentioned above.
Would you keep a sail log (for your own use, not public unless you choose)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
1) Yes--a very worthwhile enhancement
2) Yes
3) Try this: http://www.boatrampslocator.com/float-plan-download.htm
4) Already do: http://mariner1460.blogspot.com/

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

Members Avatar

USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 01/19/2009 : 09:59:47

Thanks for the response David.

The float plan you link to is a standard that I use right now (just from a different location) so it has the same issues: I have to fill out the form then print it, I cannot save the completed file, so everytime I create a new one.. tedious.

Nice blog, I like blogspot, it's so good that I'm probably dropping the idea of a blog from my service. I'll just provide a link to blogspot (I'm clearly on the google side of things! Even have a G1 phone and love it!)

Paul

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Bortiquai
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Response Posted - 01/19/2009 : 10:57:31

The problem with introducing services for profit with a site like this is the people who give the site actual value aren't the ones being compensated. I read through all sorts of posts with a wealth of information provided by individuals who have 5 stars next to their name, and thousands of posts to their credit. The only thing these people ever ask for, is if they have a question, someone will answer it if they are able.

I do know precisely what it takes to design and maintain a site like this, because I am also a developer. And while I know it isn't free, I also know it isn't very much. If only one person had all the knowledge of Catalina 25's, then that person should be providing the fee-based service. But we know that isn't the case.

Introducing a fee-based solution for the purpose of profit isn't the answer.

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