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Guess I'm keeping her!

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Randall
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123 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/26/2002 : 13:16:55

The boat, that is.

A while back I asked you all to help me love my C25 TR/SK. I've grown to kind of like it, but my wife and daughter flat LOVE it. Last night I called home to Texas and my wife told me to bring the boat back for them to use, and buy myself something bigger here in Atlanta to indulge my blue-water dreams. I should hold her to that, and start doing some serious boat shopping, but I'm going to hold back and keep trying to LOVE the Cat.

Let me give you all a little background so you'll understand our peculiar situation. I'm normally a poor-but-honest cop in central Texas. I'm also a Major in the Army Reserve. This past January, I was mobilized for 1 year to serve at Ft. McPherson in Atlanta GA. My orders were just extended for a second year. My bosses tell me that I will most likely spend the whole time here, but there is a fairly good chance I will wind up "over yonder". The boat has a nice tandem axle trailer which I keep at the ready in case I have to load it up on short notice.

I'm living in a hotel, and bought the Cat 25 to help me keep my sanity. The boat needs a lot of work, but right now I have the time and money to put into it to upgrade and modify it to meet my family's needs. When I demobilize and go home, I'll be making less money, and will have two years worth of work to catch up on around the old homestead. The sky's the limit right now for boat work, and my wife has given me the green light to "spend without remorse", as long as I'll be happy with it when it's finished, because she and our 8 yo daughter like it just fine as is.

Her only demand so far is that I buy a new outboard with electric start, because she doesn't like leaning over the transom trying to yank the pull rope on the Honda 5. Aye, Aye, Dear-- a new Honda 9.9 high-thrust X-long shaft it is!! I've already begun shopping, with $2500 the best deal I've found so far.

So fair warning, gang, I'm going to be testing your patience with all my questions, cause I've got a million of 'em. I'll try to check the archives so I won't be too redundant in my queries, but there are lots of things I'd like to do while I can.

Randall

Edited by - on

pwhallon
Admiral

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USA
694 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2002 : 15:21:43

Hi Randall,

I'm in the Atlanta area also.

The Atlanta boat show will be the first week of January. There might be some good deals on motors there.

Also, I was at the Southern Sailing center yesterday and noticed that they had a few motors on display. My friend Tom says it's pretty slow right now. Maybe he'll cut you a good deal on a motor. Tom's number is 770-945-0788.

American Boat Brokers, in Buford, also carry some new, but not current year, motors. I think they get them from dealers who go out of business, or something like that. 770-932-9494.

Do you sail on lake Allatoona or Lanier.

Good luck motor hunting,

Paul

Edited by - on

Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2002 : 17:35:13

Randall I know exactly how you feel. Just a few short weeks ago I was looking the unemployment lines in the eye. I put Wind Lass up for sale expecting it to take me untill next spring to sell. New through hulls, new epoxy bottom, new motor. I was hoping by spring things would be better. If they weren't I would be desperate and need money badly. All the people here supported me. Job hunting help, come for a sail on my boat, let us know how your doing and please dont leave the board altogether were some of the replies. Private E mail offering support were wonderfull. Then the worst happened, the boat sold in 9 days. Im going nuts here with no way to get down to the water for an esscape from the stress. Once again the people here were right, things changed and now the job I have is probably safe for a few more years untill I can retire. My wife and I are looking for another boat. My wife wants something bigger. Large enough to take us to Alaska. This weekend she is taking off for two days to attend a sailing class for foul weather and big boat handling. Im the one playing catch up. Looks like we will be following in Ken Caves footsteps and are presently trying to find a Cape Dory. I know Im going to the dark side but Its a bright new world for me. Ill always remeber my friends here. Ill stick around the board and help when I can. Thanks everyone

Doug&Ruth
Boatless in Seattle
Tacoma Wa.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2002 : 23:38:39

Randall: One more reminder... The Honda 9.9 and the Honda 8 are EXACTLY the same engine except for a limiter on the throttle on the 8--preventing it from reaching RPMs you will NEVER come close to using. I don't mean similar--I mean the SAME ENGINE. Actually, there is one more difference: a couple of boat units.

Have fun!

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - on

Randall
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123 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2002 : 03:49:17

Neither lake, Paul, I have her at West Point Lake on the AL/GA line. Nice quiet lake, nice folks at Southern Harbor Marina, cheaper slip fees than Lanier, and no annual contract. It is also 125+ miles closer to home when I'm ready to head back to Texas.

I called Shaddux(?) Marine and one other dealer, but I don't recall which. Shaddux quoted $2400 for a "bigfoot" 9.9 w/ electric start, the other $2800, (which is why I immediately forgot the name).

Dave, I remembered reading in earlier posts here that the rev limiter was the only difference on some models. I also remembered that the new high-thrust 25 inch shaft "bigfoot" model was suggested for our boats. Is there an 8 horse "bigfoot"?
We do sometimes get into high winds & lumpy water on our home lake (Lake Amistad, DelRio TX), so I like the idea of the extra-long shaft. When the waters are calm, I can keep the motor raised up higher for easy access. I want my wife and daughter to get comfortable motoring about, and then start teaching them to sail. Right now they are happy just being passengers. I figure that an electric start & easy-to-reach controls may help put them at ease.

Doug, I hope you find that bigger boat soon. I know what it is like to be boatless. We sold our Starwind 19 last year because I needed the money to rebuild a Starwind 22 that I'd rescued from a cow pasture. There was more work than I'd bargained for, and the months dragged by. The 22 still sits forlornly on it's trailer in my yard. My wife wants me to sell it as-is to the highest bidder.

I also hope my wife takes to sailing the way Ruth has. Lisa likes being aboard, but hasn't really shown interest in learning to sail. For safety's sake I want her to at least become comfortable motoring. I've considered sending her to sailing classes like Ruth is going to attend. I tend to become the tyrant of the tiller when we're sailing, so I'm sure my girls would do better learning from someone else.

Randall

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2002 : 10:10:38

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Dave, I remembered reading in earlier posts here that the rev limiter was the only difference on some models. I also remembered that the new high-thrust 25 inch shaft "bigfoot" model was suggested for our boats. Is there an 8 horse "bigfoot"?
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
Ours is an '02 8 hp XL shaft (28") high-thrust electric start with 12-amp alternator and everything else the 9.9 model offers--except the extra $200 or so. The displacement, compression, fuel system, ignition, and everything else is identical. Go figure... In earlier models (up to 2000), the same was true between the 9.9 and the 15. Now, it's the 8 and the 9.9.

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - on

pwhallon
Admiral

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USA
694 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2002 : 11:31:19

Hi Randall,

Does West Point Lake have alligators?

We don't have gators in Allatoona.

Your marina sounds really nice.

Paul

Edited by - on

Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2002 : 13:28:13

Dave you are right in theory. They have the same cubic displacment up untill 2001 or so. The prior 8s and 10s have the same displacment. The new 10s and 15s have the same displacement. On the older than 2002s there are other diferences between th 8 and 10. The throttle stop is a key factor but even removing it wont make your engine into a 10. Minor carb difeances exist. In addition the exaust is diferent giving a bit more power to the 10. Just to let everyone know removing the throttle stop peg on the casting wont give you more HP just more RPMs and additional fuel burn. The 8hp should be able to push you to a minimum of 5.5 knots so will the 10. After that the boat will squat in the hull wave as it nears hull speed and neither motor can overcome the bow to sturn wave. The new 8hp gives about the same thrust as the old 10. One other thing everyone should be sure they have the sailboat prop on their engine. More pitch on the regular props slows you down. Its reverse of what you would think. The sailboat prop has less pitch to the blades alowing the motor to reach the higher more powerfull RPM range. Hope this helps

Doug&Ruth
Boatless in Seattle
Tacoma Wa.

Edited by - on

Randall
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123 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2002 : 13:25:06

Paul, I'd never even thunk about alligators, so I just now called the marina to ask. I was told that we are gator-free!

The marina is nice, and all the sailboats on the lake are there-- a total of 20-25, I'd guess. Six are Cat 25's. There is one other marina on the lake, over on the Georgia side (east side) at LaGrange, but it is sandwiched between two low bridges so it is stinkpots only. I have to drive a little further to Lanett/West Point (SW-side), but it puts the sailboats at the largest part of the lake. The marina itself is in Alabama, but before you even clear the breakwater you are in Georgia. I'm living on the SW side of Atlanta (by the airport), so it is a straight shot down IH85 to the lake, a distance of 79 miles.

The Corps of Engineers owns the lake, so there are no developments along the shores, just a few campgrounds. Piney woods are pretty much all you see along the shores. The main body of the lake is only about a mile wide and eight miles long, but there are lots of little coves to poke around in. There is a nice secluded little cove less than a mile from the marina to overnight in and swim & fish.

The marina owner had been making a lot of improvements to the place, including building a lighthouse at the entrance to the harbor. Last month, however, he and several boat owners suffered a serious setback. A tornado touched down on one of the covered houseboat docks. The winds ripped the metal roofing off and threw it all over the sailboats, dismasting and damaging several of them. My boat was on the downwind side of the dock, with a brand new Mac 26X directly opposite it on the upwind side. The Mac valiantly sacrificed itself to protect my boat. Its mast and rigging were turned into twisted scrap, and it suffered serious hull damage. The heart-broken owner returned it to the dealer for rebuild. My Cat did not have so much as a scratch on her, although there were large sheets of metal strewn along both sides of her! The houseboat dock was rolled over 180 degrees, leaving the floats and dock sticking straight up in the air and the roof stuck on the bottom. All the boats on the upwind side were trapped for a couple of weeks until the wreckage was removed. It has now been cleared and things are getting back to normal.

Randall

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2002 : 20:26:52

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Dave you are right in theory. They have the same cubic displacment up untill 2001 or so. The prior 8s and 10s have the same displacment. The new 10s and 15s have the same displacement.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
Sorry, Doug, but it's the other way around. Check www.honda-marine.com. You will note that the 9.9 is rated at a higher RPM. A mechanic told me the carbs are the same part. They did this for marketing purposes--not to be able to play with more components. Early in my career, IBM did it with some mainframes--the 360 Model 25 was a Model 30 with a jumper wire set to reduce the clock speed. A field engineer could "upgrade" it in about 12 seconds--the time it took to unlock and relock the cabinet. If you do it to the Honda 8, however, you void the warranty.

Good point about the prop, however... Our new 8 high-thrust cruises at a higher RPM than our older 8 did--the big difference is starting and stopping. The new motor and prop stop so much more quickly and back up so much better it's amazing. Part of that is a design that keeps the exhaust away from the prop in reverse.

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 09/28/2002 23:03:06

Edited by - on

Douglas
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Response Posted - 09/29/2002 : 00:38:32

Yep by God your right same cubic in for the 8 and 10. Perhaps I had it backwards. BTW thanks for the Honda site link. Good info. Between the two of us we will keep each other honest hahahah fair winds Dave.

Doug&Ruth
Boatless in Seattle
Tacoma Wa.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/29/2002 : 08:57:43

I hope the winds today are fair--they'll be about our last for the season. Passage sails (or motors) to the boatyard next weekend. Project time starts then... but the Admiral tells me the projects will be in the house.

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - on

tinob
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Response Posted - 09/29/2002 : 16:40:48

Dave,

How ya gonna get the boat in da house?

Val Bisagni

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Derek Crawford
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Response Posted - 09/29/2002 : 18:21:41

Dave - do you have the specs on the new prop? Mine needs replacing (it's on an 8hp electric start Nissan) and I never knew there was a better prop for a sailboat!
Derek

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/29/2002 : 19:01:52

Val: Now there's an idea! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Derek: Our prop is 10x6.5" (four blades). That compares to 9.25x8 for the standard prop for the Honda 8. Keep in mind that these are for 4-strokes that normally run at lower rpms and have more low-end torque. The prescription for yours may vary.

The standard prop for most outboards assumes the boat will go well above hull speed--such as an inflatable that will plane with 10hp. The lower pitch allows the engine to work more efficiently on a heavy displacement hull (like ours), and generates a somewhat less prop-walk when the boat is barely moving.

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - on

Randall
Navigator

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123 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2002 : 19:21:06

I'm having a whole lot of no luck at finding a new motor hereabouts.

The place that first quoted $2400 now said they can only sell outboards as part of a package deal with a new stinkpot. BoatUS doesn't have the new XL-shaft high-thrust Nissans listed in their catalog yet, so they're no help. West Marine had a Mercury bigfoot 9.9 that had been special ordered & not taken, but Merc motors are electric start only-- no rope start as a backup. That makes it a complete non-starter with me.

Anyone got any suggestions?

Edited by - on

n/a
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Response Posted - 09/30/2002 : 20:12:36

Humble suggestion....This is what I did
First do your home work, decide which motor you want and whatever options you would like included. You may narrow it down to two choices, so that if the unlikely scenario arises where you find a "monster deal" on one choice , you can jump on it with no questions or regrets.

I live in the San francisco bay area and I wanted a ex long shaft 8 horse Honda w/o lectric start. I went on the internet and listed
every Honda outboard dea;ler in California. I found some that had last years model ( long shaft) at a whopper deal....NO GO, gotta have an "xtra Long" ( Remember I had already set NO-Change specs). I told every dealer where I lived, but said that for the best price in California I would be there in a day or two. I finally found a dealer at some insignificant wharf that I never could have found in the Los Angeles area, he had the motor still in the crate for $2095. I told him I could be there in 12 hours for $1800!!!!!!with cash. He responded at $1865, with dealer setup, new warrantee etc, plus tax.. I hopped in the truck, planned some business on the way, met him at noon the next day and voila......under $2000 with tax. He uncrated it, put it in the water tank, tuned it up, and gave me specific instructions in the care and feeding of it.
Smaller dealers want your business, and if your willing to take a day or two to travel, they'll usually make it worth your while. Don't expect to get a great deal at a W/M or a Boat U.S. They make much more profit on a few lengths of rope and some steel fittings, they would rather not be bothered with motor sales. unless your that sucker that they've been looking for.

Edited by - on

RichardG
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Response Posted - 10/01/2002 : 18:38:06

Gary:

Which dealer?

RichardG 81 C25 SR/FK "Sanity"

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