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depth sounder transducer

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Walt Oler
1st Mate

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USA
44 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/29/2009 : 06:51:54

I am sure that longtime followers of this forum are tired of seeing postings relating to depth sounders. But, I read the related archived threads, followed instructions, and still can't get our new Norcross Hawkeye depth sounder to work.

I tried the wax ring and the small water reservoir for hull interior mounting of the transducer beneath the V-birth. Neither yielded valid readings. I hung the transducer over the side of the boat and it works fine.

Suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Edited by - Walt Oler on 01/29/2009 06:52:23

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2009 : 07:38:14

This time of year, with ice covering the river, any problem is welcome! Did you get invalid readings, or none at all? Can you give us a little more detail on the positioning?

Under the v-berth might be problematic... The angle might not be close enough to straight down, which reduces the reflection off the bottom. I know people like to put the sounder as far forward as possible--for "advance warning", but there is no such thing with an ordinary sounder. It's not "forward-scanning sonar" unless you paid several thousand... It can only measure what's already under the boat. If it suddenly shows 2', you're aground.

The other likely culprit when you can't get readings is air. There can't be any between the transducer and the water outside.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 01/29/2009 07:51:58

Walt Oler
1st Mate

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USA
44 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2009 : 12:44:34

I tried the wax mount about a foot ahead and to the side of the keel. The gauge just showed 3 dashes to indicate that it recognized that it couldn't make a reading - probably could not detect an echo. There was not a good clear color to the wax and I suspected that I had trapped air in it when kneading and softening it.

The second approach was to calk a short piece of 4" pvc pipe just ahead of the bulkhead below the v-birth. I intended to fill it with mineral oil but tested it with water first. After filling with water, I just held the transducer below the water surface but not touching the bottom (hull) - probably within 1/2" of the hull surface. Still nothing but the dashes on the gauge.

I know that the depth sounder works because I got an accurate reading when I just held the transducer in the water beside the boat.

Edited by - Walt Oler on 01/29/2009 12:47:13

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2009 : 17:51:30

Do you have a wing keel? Maybe you're getting interference from that. Perhaps you should try moving closer to the bow. Under the v-birth there is a flat spot just behind the v-birth bulkhead.

Edited by - on

Merrick
Navigator

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USA
192 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2009 : 18:21:23

Mine was mounted by the PO behind (or under) the drawers, next to the steps. Seems to work well.

Edited by - on

Walt Oler
1st Mate

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USA
44 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2009 : 19:17:38

We have a fin keel.

Is there much difference in the strength of signals put out depth sounders? Are some more able to function through a thick fiberglass hull than others?

Edited by - Walt Oler on 01/29/2009 19:17:55

gracer
1st Mate

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USA
39 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2009 : 20:38:51

I initially tried mounting mine under the v-berth - very poor readings. It is now mounted under the quarter birth - good reliable readings. My sounder had a rotating mounting apparatus that was designed to keep the instrument level with the hull.

Bob

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4316 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2009 : 21:13:56

I mounted mine under the v-berth and just an inch or two from the center-line. I used the wax ring method and it worked the first time.

Try another piece of the wax ring but don't knead it at all. When you knead it you introduce air into the wax which will cause problems as you know. Just cut a piece of the ring larger than the transducer, stick it to the hull, and then press the transducer straight down into the wax until there's 1/16" - 1/8" of wax left under the transducer. It needs to be as close as possible to the hull without directly touching the glass.

Hope this will help!

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2009 : 22:54:33

Try placing the wax and transducer against the hull in the under berth storage space directly behind the companionway ladder. I put mine there (behind my swing keel cable) and it works well.
Incidentally, I tried a Norcross first buy couldn't get it to work at all and ended up buying an Eagle Cuda 168 fish finder. It works great. I like the fish finder approach because it shows the bottom gradually getting shallower, no sudden surprises.
Where are you going to mount the Hawkeye display?

Edited by - dmpilc on 01/29/2009 22:57:11

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5430 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2009 : 23:20:24

I have the exact same Hawkeye unit with the same transducer. I did the same thing you did Walt and I got nothing. I finally mounted the transducer in fresh wax (it was about 80 degrees that day) in the opening under the quarterberth just behind the starboard settee, and viola!, it worked.

I had to make sure I had the transducer mounted bottom down, I bult up a good thickness of wax, so I could really jam it down into the stuff. I assume you applied power to the unit and plugged the transducer cable into the correct receptacle on the back of the display.

I have a fin keel, not a winged keel, but I think I completely miss the aft end of the keel putting the transducer in that position.

I did notice however that if the bottom of the river or sound was soft, sticky mud, I will get only three dashes -- -- -- across the display. But since you get a good reading when you place the trx in the water over the side, this should not be a problem for you.

Keep trying, it will work!

Edited by - on

Walt Oler
1st Mate

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USA
44 Posts

Response Posted - 01/30/2009 : 05:49:01

Very good - thanks for the input. I will try the wax again under the quarterberth, this time without kneading it into a ball. That stuff is really nasty.

Edited by - on

josgood
1st Mate

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USA
57 Posts

Response Posted - 01/30/2009 : 10:28:01

i have been considering getting a new unit as mine only works up to 40ft deep...then just dashes.. i am sailing in a very large mountain lake that I am sure must have a mud bottom... maybe I have all I am going to get? I got caught out with a lightning storm coming through one day and the mast was building up a charge.tic tic tic tic snapping sound coming from it and my depth meter went haywire... 38ft..384ft..222 ft...14 ft... good news was we never got struck... huge hail came down (sure glad I had just installed that bimini)

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skrenz
Captain

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USA
351 Posts

Response Posted - 01/30/2009 : 12:27:51

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dmpilc
 ended up buying an Eagle Cuda 168 fish finder. It works great. I like the fish finder approach because it shows the bottom gradually getting shallower, no sudden surprises.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Where and how are you mounting the Eagle Cuda screen? This looks like a good product.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 01/30/2009 : 19:15:41

It's a very nice product, and inexpensive. I bought my unit on sale at Bass Pro, but Academy Sports also carries them, about $80.00. The Cuda screen sits on a removable bracket at the lower corner of the companionway just inside on the port or galley side, and it does not block the crib boards. My installation was very simple but not exactly very nautical. First, I bought a small piece of milled wood (1 side straight and 1 side routed decoratively) from H.D. for a platform to which the unit's mounting bracket is attached. Under this platform I attached a small metal angle bracket flush with the straight side. Just inside the companionway on the threshold step I attached the straight bracket with 2 screws using some small washers to raise the bracket off the wood threshold creating a slot for the angle bracket. The angle bracket piece slides into the slot holding the cuda screen in place and out of the way. We do have to be careful not to kick it when going below, but it really hasn't been problem. The unit is fairly small.
The power cord disconnects easily from the back of the unit so it can be stored if desired.

Edited 2/1/09: I figured out how to post pictures from a commercial website.

Edited by - dmpilc on 02/01/2009 12:30:46

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4316 Posts

Response Posted - 01/31/2009 : 21:12:10

I've got a $80 Humminbird and I mounted the bracket on the back side of my lower crib board. I just turn the crib board around backwards and I'm ready to go. The screen is in the perfect place for viewing and is out of the normal traffic flow while sailing.

Edited by - on

Tom Gauntt
Navigator

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204 Posts

Response Posted - 02/01/2009 : 08:53:12

Thread creep alert! I, too am installing a Cuda depth sounder/fish finder. The boat originally had a separate depth sounder gauge and a separate water temp gauge. Both were shot when I got the boat (as was most of the electronics except an old LORAN-C which still seemed to power up). Anyway, I did some research and went with the Eagle Cuda 350, which has depth/fish/sonar/water temp, but also has GPS with moving map. Now don't get too excited about the map... it's fine, but doesn't have the level of detail that a chart plotter or even hand-help GPS's have with the maps database. But it is fine to show typical geography, shows navigation markers, and best of all, is DSC compliant. Now I have a new depth/sonar/fish/temp gauge with the added benefit of GPS and moving map that is now tied to my VHF-FM DSC radio!

As far as mounting... I'm still waiting for the muse to strike, but I have the original two mounting holes for the old depth and temp gauges on starboard companionway bulkhead that need to be repaired or covered. My plan is to mill a piece of solid teak (I'm pretty handy with a table saw and router) big enough to cover other two holes (they're about two-inches apart) and make a removeable bracket or slot or something to slide the Cuda mounting bracket into while on the boat, and then remove to store below when off the boat.

I got mine a Black Bear sporting goods, but just notice Cabela's has them for $199!

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 02/01/2009 : 12:36:57

Eagle Cuda 168 now available online from Surplus Unlimited (that's where I got the pic above - if I get to the boat today, I'll try to take a pic of my elementary mounting solution), also saw several entries on Ebay.
Back to Walt's issue: Walt, have you tried remounting your transducer in a fresh glob of wax? That stuff really is messy! How did it go?

Edited by - on

Walt Oler
1st Mate

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USA
44 Posts

Response Posted - 02/01/2009 : 13:52:13

Our home is a little over 500 miles from the boat so it takes some scheduling to get to it. We are planning on being there in 2 weeks.

I'm going to try the wax again without trying to work it into a ball before pressing the transducer into. I'm also going to try a location benearth the quarterberth. I don't think there was anything wrong with the locations near the v-berth but routing the cable will be easier.

We are really eager to get this problem worked out because there are a lot of areas in Corpus Christi Bay that we will be afraid to visit without being able to check the depth.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 02/01/2009 : 14:08:13

Sorry, I forgot about your travel problem. I originally wanted to place mine under the v-berth but cable routing was the main reason I chose under the quarterberth behind the keel cable instead. And I still don't have it permanently set up; I wanted to make sure it worked before drilling more holes. I was not looking forward to routing the transducer cable through the v-berth wall, under/behind the head and cabin seating and through the galley furniture to the electrical panel, etc.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/01/2009 : 15:55:28

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dmpilc
 ...I was not looking forward to routing the transducer cable through the v-berth wall, under/behind the head and cabin seating and through the galley furniture to the electrical panel, etc.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">How about under the starboard sink, over the water tank, and through the battery compartment? Most of the holes are already there. (?)

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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 02/01/2009 : 16:33:14

I'll check it out next trip to the boat. If the starboard side looks viable, I could wire it directly to the battery. I guess I was focusing on the electrical panel. Then again, I may just leave the transducer where it is since it is working.

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Walt Oler
1st Mate

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USA
44 Posts

Response Posted - 02/01/2009 : 16:54:02

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Then again, I may just leave the transducer where it is since it is working.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Amen to that.

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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4316 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2009 : 23:03:32

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dmpilc
 ...I was not looking forward to routing the transducer cable through the v-berth wall, under/behind the head and cabin seating and through the galley furniture to the electrical panel, etc.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">How about under the starboard sink, over the water tank, and through the battery compartment? Most of the holes are already there. (?)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I just ran mine this way about a week ago. Drilled a small hole through the bulkhead under the sink, then another through the other bulkhead and ran the wire under the lip on the settee(above the water tank) and then through the fiberglass wall at the back-end of the watertank. Haven't decided how I want to finish the final routing of the transducer cable from there but it was quick, easy and out of sight.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2009 : 23:47:05

I looked at my boat today. It looks like the "floor" of the storage space under the starboard sink is level with the settee surface on the other side of the bulkhead in the main cabin. Did you drill through that floor and bulkhead there at an angle to get under that seat top, or through the bulkhead first and then down to run the wire under the settee?
I got pics of my fish finder installation. I'll upload and post them tomorrow.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4316 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2009 : 11:52:51

On my '89 I drilled the holes through both bulkheads about a foot above the bottom of the bulkheads. I don't have a "floor" below the sink. On my boat this put the cable into the storage area where the water tank is mounted. At this point I've just laid the cable over the top of the water tank but I will go back and clean up the installation when I get time.

Edited by - GaryB on 02/04/2009 11:54:20

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2009 : 13:33:30

Here are some pics of my fishfinder/depth sounder. As I said above, a very simple installation, not fancy, and easy to undo if I decide to change locations. It was not connected to the battery when I took these; when connected, the transducer wire will go around behind the ladder and down (the transducer is behind the keel cable in a glob of plumber's wax), and the battery wire will go down and directly to the battery or I'll take it straight thru the galley bulkhead to the control panel and neg. bus bar. This past summer, I had it connected to a temporary battery on the floor behind the ladder to see what the battery drain would be. Didn't have to recharge the battery all year.

Edited by - dmpilc on 02/04/2009 13:46:40

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