Association Forum - VHF Radio/Antenna/Autopilot Dilemma

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

VHF Radio/Antenna/Autopilot Dilemma

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Previous Page | Next Page

Author

Topic

Page: of 4

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2009 : 15:39:33

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JohnP
 The main reason to get an auto-inflating PFD is to protect yourself if you hit your head and fall overboard unconscious.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Actually, in the case of being knocked unconscious, you would want to be wearing an inherently bouyant pfd because if there was a malfunction with the auto-inflate mechanism, you would be unable to use either the manual or oral inflator.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2009 : 15:49:11

I hate to say it, but I just don't "get" the rage ovre these self-inflating PFD's. I wear my canoeing life Jacket all the time If I'm on the boat. same with everyone else in our family. They work. They can't fail (unless you don't put it on right), and they aren't all that bad if you buy a quality one.I guess its just one more way I think different than a lot of folks.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4317 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2009 : 16:27:49

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JimB517
 No one has mentioned the reasons for putting the antenna on the stern pulpit, like I have done.

(1) it's easy
(2) it's cheaper
(3) you can service it
(4) you can get a much better 8 foot antenna
(5) you can reduce weight aloft
(6) you can hook your handheld up to it in an emergency with a patch cord
(7) Transpac, etc. requires an antenna NOT on the mast (dismasted, you still can communicate).
(8) nice place to hang your class flag
(9) your long coax run to the top of the mast significantly decreases RF power unless you have expensive low loss cable.

6 DB antenna on the rail, 3 DB antenna aloft, I get just as good range and signal with my rail mount.

Frankly I would not leave home without either: tiller pilot AND 2 VHF radios (fixed and handheld). Plus I always carry my cell phone.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I thought you had mentioned these sometime in the past! Do you know about how far you can TX and RX? What make/model radio/antenna do you have?

Thanks for the update!

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

1520 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2009 : 16:37:25

Don,
You're right! I guess that's why I have one hand for the boat at all times when I'm up at the bow bouncing around in 3 to 5 foot waves. I refuse to fall off.

But in terms of planning ahead...

...as John Rousmaniere says in his sailboat safety videos, something like 80% of all boating drowning fatalities are recovered with their zippers down.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4317 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2009 : 18:49:15

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector
 I hate to say it, but I just don't "get" the rage ovre these self-inflating PFD's. I wear my canoeing life Jacket all the time If I'm on the boat. same with everyone else in our family. They work. They can't fail (unless you don't put it on right), and they aren't all that bad if you buy a quality one.I guess its just one more way I think different than a lot of folks.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Come on down to Houston, TX in August and you'll see why a light weight PFD is a must. 95% humidity and 100 degress is not that uncommon. And you sure don't want to get in Galveston Bay uinless you like to glow in the dark!

Edited by - GaryB on 02/11/2009 18:49:58

JimB517
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2009 : 18:59:52

Gary, I have no problem talking 25 miles on my fixed VHF and can sometimes hear much, much longer (50 - 60 miles). My 1 to 5 watt handheld - it is a crap shoot to even talk 1 mile sometimes.

My antenna is a 6 DB gain Shakspear from West Marine for about $100. It is the kind with an internal copper conductor. I'd avoid the 9 DB gain. The antenna sits on the stern rail. The co-ax comes in through the clamshell vent, runs through the internal compartments above the quarter berth and pops out just behind the radio. My radio is mounted above the quarter berth right at the salon.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4317 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2009 : 19:25:25

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JimB517
 Gary, I have no problem talking 25 miles on my fixed VHF and can sometimes hear much, much longer (50 - 60 miles). My 1 to 5 watt handheld - it is a crap shoot to even talk 1 mile sometimes.

My antenna is a 6 DB gain Shakspear from West Marine for about $100. It is the kind with an internal copper conductor. I'd avoid the 9 DB gain. The antenna sits on the stern rail. The co-ax comes in through the clamshell vent, runs through the internal compartments above the quarter berth and pops out just behind the radio. My radio is mounted above the quarter berth right at the salon.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Thanks Jim! I appreciate the info. This is a dumb question, but what's the gold rod with the orange whatever?

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

1520 Posts

Response Posted - 02/12/2009 : 09:13:56

That's a man-over-board pole and pennant, held on the backstay.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 02/12/2009 : 12:41:37

correct, you can also see my lifesling.

Indiscipline is fully equipped for offshore coastal racing (not transpac). Transpac requires carrying a 2nd rudder, among other things.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4317 Posts

Response Posted - 02/12/2009 : 16:46:27

Jimb,

What make/model is your fixed mount radio?

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 02/14/2009 : 17:17:58

For you lake sailors who want an inexpensive antenna to attach to your VHF radio, consider one of the "emergency" rubber ducky antennas with a suction cup on the bottom (available at WM, etc.) I leave mine laying on the shelf behind the starboard settee not far from the radio and it gives me all the reception I need, for well under $50, and it is not exposed to lightning!

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 02/14/2009 : 18:28:00

I've just got an old West Marine brand, someday I'll replace it, however it works fine. I was able to check in to race control in Newport Beach from off Catalina at least 25 miles away one day.

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 02/15/2009 : 10:30:54

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JimB517
 I've just got an old West Marine brand, someday I'll replace it, however it works fine. I was able to check in to race control in Newport Beach from off Catalina at least 25 miles away one day.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

That was probably a shore based transmission with much higher wattage as is sometimes licensed for commercial use, i.e. Tow Boat US guys have mega power too. They might be able to pick up your handheld as a result, but the line of sight rule still applies. I have heard of electronics guru's putting an amplifier of sorts in line to boost power when wanted for offshore buddy boating sans SSB. Near shore you have to turn it off as you'll hear every transmission for 200 miles.

With our 58' mast, plus antenna, we have been heard as far away as 47NM - just to put it all in perspective. We have heard transmissions from further away than that, but were not readable when we responded.

sten

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/15/2009 : 11:43:49

Sten... Regarding "line of sight", from the top of your 58' mast, the horizon is only approx. 10 miles away. [Rule of thumb: Horizon = sqrt(7/4*height)] The top of another 58' mast would be able to "see" the top of your mast from no further than 20 miles. So VHF waves are most certainly bending over the horizon, as well as over land masses to some extent. Both transmission power and receiving sensitivity are factors, as are water versus land, sunspots, and who knows what else.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 02/15/2009 12:06:09

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 02/16/2009 : 09:52:30

Agreed Dave and thanks for the math lesson. Radio waves do bend and bounce... SSB for example bounces off of the stratosphere enabling long distance communication. Most VHF shore based operations and the Coasties have tall antennas nonetheless, thereby increasing their range.

sten

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/16/2009 : 22:20:21

The Coasties also have much higher-powered transmitters and I assume amplified receiving gear. I've experienced evidence of both.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

Members Avatar

USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 02/17/2009 : 18:23:49

Regarding the Wham Mic range in COG event: the antenna for the Wham is in the module that connects the radio, so penetrating the fiberglas with the handheld limits the range. I tried controlling the radio from the dock and got "iffy" performance at 40 feet and reliable performance at 30 feet from different locations; you would certainly have no more than 30 second to flip the distress button, and probably significantly less.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4317 Posts

Response Posted - 02/18/2009 : 11:38:25

Well, I ordered a Mustang MD3084 auto-inflate PFD w/harness from Defender yesterday. Also ordered a stobe to go with it. All should arrive next Tuesday.

http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|135|439|320546|436864&id=337833
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|135|320544|9312&id=122677

My first experience with Defender was very pleasant. Very courteous and patient person on the phone. They had this PFD on sale last week for the Miami Boat Show. I couldn't get online to order it last week and when I explained the situation they were kind enough to offer me the sale price if I ordered then and there. They didn't have to do this but by doing that they made a customer for life.

Now I've got to start saving for my radio and antenna!

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

Members Avatar

USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 02/18/2009 : 16:48:17

Gary, nice choice and I like Defender as well. But what about a tether to keep you on the boat? Unless that's down the road. Guess you wouldn't buy jacket with harness unless planning to get tether, right?
Steve A

Edited by - piseas on 02/18/2009 16:50:04

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4317 Posts

Response Posted - 02/18/2009 : 20:08:38

I can buy tethers through the company I work for at 5% above cost. Should be able to save at least $50-$75 bucks.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

Members Avatar

USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 02/19/2009 : 15:13:44

Gary, that is great. Hey who do you work for? Maybe we can get you some business on the side!
Steve A

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4317 Posts

Response Posted - 03/03/2009 : 20:51:40

Should I go with a single leg or double leg tether? Whichever I go with I'm going to go with the retractable type. I assume I should be looking at the 1 meter retracted/2 meter extended?

I'll be sailing solo most of the time.

Thanks in advance for your help and support!

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

Members Avatar

USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 03/03/2009 : 21:42:13

We both have the duals tethers with the 1 & 2 meter shock corded lanyards. For the difference in money versus the ability to stay connected to your boat at all times, it seems worth it to me. I have to admit I've yet to use both tethers at once, but we've only been out twice this year so far, and both times in very mild conditions with at least two people on the boat. What I've started doing is attaching myself to the mast with my six foot tether while I work the foredeck or the main. I almost never remember to disconnect myself until it yanks me up short about the time I want to step down into the cockpit. Practice, practice, practice.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

Members Avatar

USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 03/05/2009 : 14:55:57

Gary, if you have a jackline from bow to stern, and are always connected then only one is necessary. If this is not the case and you have attach yourself to another point then 2 is best. That way you are always attached to something.

Steve A

Edited by - on

Tradewind
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
531 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2010 : 12:59:03

I know I've seen some great pics on the forum for running VHF wire up the mast for the 250, can't seem to find the pics anywhere. I think they were posted by Randy or Dave on the 250 Forum....Help?

Edited by - on

Page: of 4

Topic

Previous Page | Next Page

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.