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bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1776 Posts

Response Posted - 03/04/2009 : 13:52:37

Maybe I'm naive, but if you are racing for national sailing kudos our boats may not be THE ideal candidate. However, if you are racing for fun I would think regional races would work well while keeping the Nationals for those who enjoy the road trip as much as the sailing challenge. For all we know the regionals may not fare better than allegedly the Nationals. For a fleet designed for cruising and day sailing that ranges in age from new to 30 year old, please, keep it simple!

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 03/04/2009 : 17:03:48

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by bigelowp
 Maybe I'm naive, but if you are racing for national sailing kudos our boats may not be THE ideal candidate. However, if you are racing for fun I would think regional races would work well while keeping the Nationals for those who enjoy the road trip as much as the sailing challenge. For all we know the regionals may not fare better than allegedly the Nationals. For a fleet designed for cruising and day sailing that ranges in age from new to 30 year old, please, keep it simple!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> In order to race for a national championship in its class, a boat doesn't have to be designed and built primarily as a racer. Over fifty year old full keel Pearson Tritons still have regular national class championship regattas. Nineteenth century Chesapeake Bay log sailing canoes are still very competitively raced. Catalina 22s have annual championships. Nearly fifty year old Cal 25s are a very competitive racing class, with regular national championships. Catalina 27s are one of the biggest and most popular racing classes for their size, and they aren't as fast as the C25, but they have class championships. A yacht race isn't about having a fast boat. It's about getting the best performance out of the boat you have. Class racing has little to do with differences in the abilities of the boats, and has everything to do with the skill of the skipper and crew. A person with a competitive spirit will race anything. I used to race the elevators in my office building until age slowed me down.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 03/04/2009 17:06:02

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1776 Posts

Response Posted - 03/05/2009 : 17:44:33

Noted -- but still keep the regionals simple

Edited by - on

Peregrine
Admiral

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830 Posts

Response Posted - 03/08/2009 : 21:07:44

Jim's idea needs to be explored and supported.
Racing under the sanction of the Assoc. can and should be expanded.
This needs to be tied to the development of local fleets and the narrow definition of "Nationals" needs to make room for many more of our members to participate in nation wide racing events.
IMO No one should be awarded the "Nationals" unless they represent a local fleet that has regular activities and active members of the National Assoc.
Mildy's protestations that "anyone can attend a Nationals" does not hold water.
Sorry bad pun.

When a region is awarded the opportunity to host the "Nationals" that region alone controls the claim on a winner because traveling to the so called "Nationals" from any distance is not possible and everyone knows it.
As I said before the "Nationals" have always been regional.
Lets be honest about it and have a real discussion about getting many more members involved in club, i.e. local fleet racing and build a stronger "National" Assoc.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2009 : 09:16:44

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Peregrine
 Jim's idea needs to be explored and supported.
Racing under the sanction of the Assoc. can and should be expanded.
This needs to be tied to the development of local fleets and the narrow definition of "Nationals" needs to make room for many more of our members to participate in nation wide racing events.
IMO No one should be awarded the "Nationals" unless they represent a local fleet that has regular activities and active members of the National Assoc.
Mildy's protestations that "anyone can attend a Nationals" does not hold water.
Sorry bad pun.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I’m beginning to understand John G’s proposal. He is suggesting that we use the National Regatta to “develop our local fleets.” He says that “IMO No one should be awarded the "Nationals" unless they represent a local fleet that has regular activities and active members of the National Assoc.” Presently, anyone who races a boat in our National Regatta is required to be a member of the National Association, but is not required to be a member of an active local fleet. Since the National Association doesn’t have local fleets at every sailing venue across the country, that means a person who wants to race in the National Championship will have to organize a local fleet. But, it doesn’t have to be a “real” fleet. If there’s only one C25 at his lake, he can form a one-boat fleet. While it would be nice to encourage the formation of local fleets around the country, it wouldn’t really benefit the National Association to have racers forming sham “fleets” just so they can race for the National Championship, and it doesn’t make sense to force them to jump through that hoop, because it would be just one more factor that would discourage them from participating. It’s already difficult enough for people to prep and trailer their boats to the regatta, and John‘s proposal would make it even more so. On paper, it would look like we have a lot of new fleets, but they would be sham fleets that serve nobody and exist only so one person can race his boat in the National Championship. Local fleets shouldn’t exist only to serve that purpose. The only reason why they should exist is to serve a number of local C25/250 sailors who want to band together for their common interests and social interaction. We shouldn’t try to use the National Championship to accomplish some dubious tangential purpose, at the risk of harming it‘s viability as an event.

Likewise, if it is our objective to increase the members’ participation in racing, that might possibly be done by organizing regional races and regattas, but, we don’t need to change or jeopardize the format of the National Championship in order to do that.

If it is our objective to gather all the absolute best C25/250 racers together every year to determine who is the absolute best C25/250 racer in the world, that’ll never happen. Amateur yacht racers have jobs and families and pressing responsibilities that deter them from taking the time and making the effort to prepare their boat and to trailer it to a regatta. Reality dictates that some of the absolute best racers won’t be able to get off work, or will have other personal responsibilities that will prevent them from participating, or maybe in that year it‘ll just be too far to travel. We can’t control that. The best way we can deal with it is to move the event around the country, so that eventually, everyone will have a reasonable opportunity to participate. Every national championship in every sport only determines the best competitor who shows up at the event and competes in it. It’s a given that there might be some people who didn’t attend, who might be more skilled than those who did attend. If you beat all the racers who showed up to race in the National Regatta, you are the national champion, even though some people might have decided not to participate, for whatever their personal reasons might be. Occasionally a top competitor in the Olympics will decline to participate in the event for political reasons, or because they were injured, or for other reasons. Nevertheless, the person who wins in that person’s absence is still the Olympic Champion.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 03/12/2009 : 09:10:36

Three things, and then I'm outa here...

1. Keep the little "Nationals" if you can find organizers, but any kind of qualifications will kill them altogether. I was in an unofficial "local fleet" with five C-25s, and not one of them raced. (We "cruised PHRF"--meaning the slower boats left earlier.) Jim B. is in an official fleet and is the only C-25 racer among them (I think). People who want to race against boats like theirs are unlikely to buy C-25s to do it. I suspect that as C-25s get older and cheaper, fewer people will buy them or suit them up for racing. (Very few of the 6000+ initial buyers did in the first place.)

2. Add something like Chris or I described--it's just a minor bookkeeping function that can have inputs from the forum--to involve every club racer in the International Association.

3. Let's stop hiding discussions like this in the corner ("Association Business") where only a few old-timers look at them or participate.

Committee boat out.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 03/12/2009 09:14:45

Peregrine
Admiral

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830 Posts

Response Posted - 01/30/2010 : 11:58:58

The officers are going forward with "Regional Regattas" notice will posted soon.
This is a great idea that will IMO will strengthen the Assoc. and prep new venues for future "National Regattas".
Thanks again to Jim Baumgart for putting forth the idea and of course for stepping up to host this years National Regatta.

Edited by - on

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