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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Off Season Rudder Storage

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bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1787 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/13/2009 : 23:12:08

In the Swap Meet an off-shoot of a post began discussing how people -- especially in norther climates with long winters -- store their rudders off season. In an attempt to get more input and move a good topic into the correct Forum, how DO people store their rudders? Keep them on the boat? Create vertical (or horizontal) mounts? Lay them on the floor? Some people have their original rudders, I have a newer "balanced" rudder, but we all need to figure a good and non damaging place to store a not so small item off season. Any thoughts or comments?

Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 02/14/2009 : 08:32:08

Our C-25 stays in the water year-round, at least for now, so we leave the rudder in place on the stern. For our C-22, the fixed blade rudder is stored inside the boat and the kick-up rudder is in the storage shed (along with the slide-out galley and cushions since we primarily race her.) I may have mentioned this in the other thread: Several years ago, I ordered bag made out of sail bag material that would slide over the rudder. This protects the interior of the boat, as well as my hands, from any bottom paint staining, and offers something to grip to help lift the rudder while carrying it below.

Edited by - dmpilc on 02/14/2009 08:33:40

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 02/14/2009 : 08:41:19

We bring the rudder home, along w/ the sails and other pieces...the admiral accuses me of bringing the boat home a piece at a time...the rudder stores standing, against the wall, in moderate temperature, in the basement.

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Renzo
Admiral

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USA
621 Posts

Response Posted - 02/14/2009 : 09:19:52

I usually store my rudder on the boat, lying on its' side in the rear quarter berth. I remove the tiller and bring that home to do touch-up work. I don't propose that this is the best way to store the rudder but I have been doing it for many years in a northern climate and I haven't noticed any damage. The construction of the rudder is the same as the construction of the hull so I figgure what's good for one is good for the other.

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/14/2009 : 09:52:36

I, too, bring my rudder home and store it inside.

When out of the water, rudders should not be left exposed to sunlight, especially if the rudder is painted with a darker bottom paint because heat can build up and cause damage to the rudder. If the rudder is to remain attached to the boat on land, it should be covered with a white plastic/garbage bag to reflect the the suns heat or it should be painted with a special white antifouling paint to lessen the potential damage that can be caused by the sun.

Edited by - dlucier on 02/14/2009 09:54:36

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/14/2009 : 10:36:16

Many people with the older, unbalanced rudders have complained about a split in the seam between the two halves, all the way around the head of the rudder. From what I could tell on my original rudder, the head was cored with wood, and the blade below the waterline was solid fiberglass. The head on mine was split--I suspect from moisture that found its way into the core (probably through the pintle bolt holes or the tiller hole), and then froze. Once split, moisture can really get in, weakening the core and causing the catastrophic breakage at the level of the lower pintle. I kept my new foam-cored, balanced, expen$ive rudder in the basement every winter.

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 02/15/2009 : 10:41:46

Stores upright in the garage between Erie haulout and Pensacola launch, same in the Spring.

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bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1787 Posts

Response Posted - 02/15/2009 : 15:47:58

I have a newer "balanced" rudder, which I store off season in my garage. I always wonder if it should be "standing" or laying on it's end lower to the floor and if the weight or angle might cause any warpage. So far no damage has been observed but all it takes is someone moving something in my "Fibber McGee" garage to potentially create a problem. As the original paperwork warns against warpage and incorrect storage, I have thought about whether I should suspend the rudder or secure it in a more proper way. It sounds like we all are improvising and the rudder is more rugged than the paperwork it came with indicated.

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Deric
Captain

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USA
408 Posts

Response Posted - 02/15/2009 : 16:37:05

I store my boat's rudder in the garage -- unheated, detached garage. The rudder is original 1978. Last summer, I filled holes, scrapes, and reshaped edge areas. Seams were given attention as well. Lastly, I painted the rudder.

Two months ago, a fellow sailor on this site sold me a rudder. The second rudder will be prepared as a spare, replacement rudder, and stored inside the garage as well.

Deric

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Navy1
Navigator

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USA
126 Posts

Response Posted - 02/15/2009 : 17:18:10

I know I'm going to sound stupid, but if I don't ask I won't know. What constitutes a "balanced" rudder? My 2004 C250WB has the standard rudder that came with the boat. I have it sitting in an unheated garage, sitting upright, on the floor. Now I'm wondering if I should hang it by it's gudgeons, or what? I'm not even sure what my rudder is made of? I had a kick up rudder on my C22 and wish that's what I had on my C250. Do they make a kickup rudder for the C250?

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bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1787 Posts

Response Posted - 02/15/2009 : 17:30:46

The "balanced" rudder is a newer design available from Catalina Direct as a replacement for the original. It is constructed of solid epoxy vs the laminated wood/glass that the original was. The newer design reduces weather helm.

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5397 Posts

Response Posted - 02/15/2009 : 21:06:08

I have the rudder hanging from the rafters in my attached garage, the core seemed dry when I pulled it last fall, and since I have 15' rafters, it hangs nicely along the west wall of the garage patiently waiting for the first week of April, when I plan to launch Passage.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/15/2009 : 22:42:20

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Navy1
 What constitutes a "balanced" rudder?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">A balanced rudder has a small portion of its surface forward of the imaginary line through the pintles, so that when you turn it even slightly, the force of the water on that forward area "balances" some of the force on the larger area aft of the pintles, creating a "power steering" effect. On our boats, this is accomplished by adding a forward "step" that allows part of the rudder to project below the bottom of the boat. It does not actually reduce weather helm--the angle of the rudder required to keep the boat from turning to weather. It just reduces the pressure on the tiller to maintain that angle.

I don't know enough about the various rudders in the evolution of the C-250 to answer your question about what you have... I do know that the C-25 changed to a balance rudder during the 1988-89 timeframe. That new rudder also had a very improved foil shape that reduced turbulence and therefore pulsing on the tiller. I upgraded to one on my '85, and was very gratified--it really was like power steering, and eliminated the flutter.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 02/15/2009 22:45:56

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/16/2009 : 10:44:21

In addition to the power steering effect, a balanced rudder also affects how weatherhelm is percieved and the adjustments one makes to the sail plan. When sailing, lift is generated by the rudder's shape and it's angle of attack which pulls the rudder to weather. Although this pull to weather is normal, on non-balanced rudders, this pull may be perceived as weather helm since the forces acting on the rudder are aft of the pivot point of the rudder. Leeway, especially excessive leeway, can also put pressure on the rudder in the same way. Someone with an unbalanced rudder may mistake these normal forces as excessive weather helm and adjust their sail plans to reduce or eliminate the force on the tiller, but they may be tweaking to a more nuetral helm.

In general, I agree with Dave's notion that simply moving the pivot point of a rudder to make it balanced, in and of itself does not reduce weather helm, but in the specific case of the C25's rudder, along with moving the pivot point, the improved shape of the foil on the balanced rudder appears to have dramatically reduced actual weather helm.

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bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1787 Posts

Response Posted - 02/16/2009 : 11:36:16

Roger -- it's amazing how much you can learn from this forum and folks like Dave and Don. As many times as I have read the "technical" description of the "balanced" rudder, my feeble mind just grasps it's improved performance regarding weather helm. However, there is a lot more about how it can improve overall performance for all the reasons (plus I am sure more) stated. As you appear to have a 250 vs a 25 I am not sure if the 250 "standard" rudder is the only option or if they too have a better balanced option to consider. The original 25 was designed in the early 70's and my guess is that by time they designed the 250 in the early 90's any improvements would have been incorporated.

Equally if you really want to improve your sailing ability with our boats I commend you to peruse the archives -- where there is as much or as little as you may need/want to know about sail shape, rigging, as well as balance and helm -- for the 25 as well as the 250.

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