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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Rudder repair

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mrapkins
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USA
124 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/15/2009 : 13:00:58

I own a 1985 C25 FK SR.
The attached pictures show the rudder. There is a crack extending from the edge of the rudder to the 1st hole for the pintle. In addition, there is a crack/delamination along the seam all the way around the rudder. Plus, the PO has torqued down the pintle bolts so as to cause deformation of the rudder (about 3/16 on both sides).

My initial thought is to call this largely cosmetic and fabricate a pintle that extends further into the center of the rudder. The crack then becomes much less important; I will fill it with epoxy and possibly rout a groove in the edge of the rudder and reinforce it with a stainless steel rod embedded in epoxy)I could then "bondo" the depression and rout a groove around the rudder edge and fill with epoxy. OK I am unable to insert a picture. This must be covered somewhere. I'll be back!!

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 02/15/2009 : 13:57:54

Mark,
Look at instructions in the Testing forum about adding photos.

Your description sounds exactly like what my 29 year old rudder looked like in the spring of 2007. I cut it open and dried it out for 3 months indoors, then ground out the center 1/3, added lots of fiberglass, covered it with an epoxy water seal, and painted it nicely with bottom paint and white topside paint. It lasted 18 months, until it cracked in half at the lower (nicely reinforced) lower pintle, when I subjected it to extreme stress sailing in 25-30 knot winds and 3 foot waves. The plywood core had become waterlogged and weakened over the years, and no repair of the glass could really fix it, without replacing or reinforcing the entire core somehow.

In retrospect, I could have saved myself 20-40 hours of work and $100 in materials and supplies if I had bought a new rudder 18 months ago instead of this winter.

You can find a number of informative threads on "rudder" on the forum.

By the way, do you sail out of Havre-de-Grace or somewhere else in MD?

Edited by - JohnP on 02/15/2009 14:05:56

mrapkins
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USA
124 Posts

Response Posted - 02/16/2009 : 09:20:58

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JohnP
 Mark,
Look at instructions in the Testing forum about adding photos.

Your description sounds exactly like what my 29 year old rudder looked like in the spring of 2007. I cut it open and dried it out for 3 months indoors, then ground out the center 1/3, added lots of fiberglass, covered it with an epoxy water seal, and painted it nicely with bottom paint and white topside paint. It lasted 18 months, until it cracked in half at the lower (nicely reinforced) lower pintle, when I subjected it to extreme stress sailing in 25-30 knot winds and 3 foot waves. The plywood core had become waterlogged and weakened over the years, and no repair of the glass could really fix it, without replacing or reinforcing the entire core somehow.

In retrospect, I could have saved myself 20-40 hours of work and $100 in materials and supplies if I had bought a new rudder 18 months ago instead of this winter.

You can find a number of informative threads on "rudder" on the forum.

By the way, do you sail out of Havre-de-Grace or somewhere else in MD?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I read your thread - very informative. My rudder is not wood - some kind of dense foam. Which rudder did you buy?

I sail out of Maryland Marina.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/16/2009 : 10:24:36

Kodak can't find the "album" using those URLs. We may need to be "logged in" to Kodak to get to it. We'd really like to see the pictures... If you can't get Kodak to work, try Shutterfly--it's free.

In general, I'll say that no crack in a rudder is just cosmetic, especially sailing on the Chesapeake. The bottom pintle is the high-stress area--right where the blade usually breaks clean off. If your rudder is the original unbalanced one that came with the '85, it is wood cored. If it seems like foam, it might be rotten wood--very, very bad. If somebody replaced it with a balanced rudder, with the "step" that extends forward below the skeg on the hull, then it actually is foam-cored fiberglass (like the one I bought) unless it's solid HDPE.

Edited by - on

mrapkins
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USA
124 Posts

Response Posted - 02/21/2009 : 15:25:30

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 Kodak can't find the "album" using those URLs. We may need to be "logged in" to Kodak to get to it. We'd really like to see the pictures... If you can't get Kodak to work, try Shutterfly--it's free.

In general, I'll say that no crack in a rudder is just cosmetic, especially sailing on the Chesapeake. The bottom pintle is the high-stress area--right where the blade usually breaks clean off. If your rudder is the original unbalanced one that came with the '85, it is wood cored. If it seems like foam, it might be rotten wood--very, very bad. If somebody replaced it with a balanced rudder, with the "step" that extends forward below the skeg on the hull, then it actually is foam-cored fiberglass (like the one I bought) unless it's solid HDPE.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

How about this?

http://womble1.shutterfly.com/?role=-1

My plan was to use Git Rot to fill the crack and also to seal the seam.

What do you recommend to cover the core where I removed the delaminated fiberglass?

I was also thinking of making the pintle extend further into the middle of the rudder so as to reduce stress on the area where the crack is.

Edited by - mrapkins on 02/21/2009 15:29:01

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 02/21/2009 : 16:42:20

Looks like the same "old style" rudder I had on my 1988 TR - foam core with seems on the edges. It too snapped but the outter skin kept it from totally breaking in half.

Personnally I wouldn't bother trying to fix it. Get a new balanced rudder from Catalina Direct. You'll be glad you did.

Edited by - aeckhart on 02/21/2009 16:43:04

hinmo
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USA
248 Posts

Response Posted - 02/22/2009 : 09:47:24

Sorry to persist, but started to really look at my rudder today. A couple comments/questions:

the boats a 1983

1) The rudder is foam cored (i thought a 1983 was wood...do you think it was replaced?). I drilled a couple exploratory holes up top, there appears to be no wetness inside

2) there is some splitting/delam on the seam on the lower portion. Isnt this solid glass with a gel coat over the top? If yes, I think the gel coat just needs re-glassing?

Edited by - on

sweetcraft
Admiral

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USA
816 Posts

Response Posted - 02/22/2009 : 10:48:03

Prevention is to keep stored rudder out of sunlight and out of car trunk on a hot day.(old thread)

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mrapkins
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USA
124 Posts

Response Posted - 02/22/2009 : 11:37:56

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by aeckhart
 Looks like the same "old style" rudder I had on my 1988 TR - foam core with seems on the edges. It too snapped but the outter skin kept it from totally breaking in half.

Personnally I wouldn't bother trying to fix it. Get a new balanced rudder from Catalina Direct. You'll be glad you did.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I think I'll try and repair it. $649 for a new rudder seems a bit steep. Does anyone have any thoughts on my proposed plan for the repairs?

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/22/2009 : 14:31:27

Use the Search function for "rudder repair" in the C-25 forum. You'll find some extensive discussions, including various types of repairs, and a few anecdotes where some apparently credible attempts ended up failing (creating some excitement). IMVHO, when a C-25 rudder, with its lower-pintle stress point and no internal framework, shows signs of deterioration, it's time for a new rudder. Maybe I'm too cautious...

My original rudder was damaged in a different way, but the advice I got here was similar. Besides easing my mind, my new balanced rudder was an excellent upgrade.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 02/22/2009 14:40:23

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