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150% with Whisker Pole

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Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/02/2009 : 15:16:13

I've finally decided to go with a 150% jib. I currently have a 110%. My reasoning goes as follows: For a long time I was torn between the decision of going with either a 135% or 150%. For cruising I would rather have a 135% since its easier to handle and more comfy. However I am buying this for racing purposes and since we usually have light winds on Wednesday evenings I think this is the way to go even though it might be more work and overpowered in moderate to high winds (but then I'll switch to the 110%).

I also need a Whisker Pole and currently looking at the forespar ADJ 7-15-DL ($389). This whisker pole is the same as the HD 6-12 but longer for the 150%. Is 7-15 feet OK for a 150%?

Steve Blackburn, Calgary, AB
C250WB - 1999 - Hull 396

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 03/02/2009 : 15:42:16

I *Think* this is the one I have. http://ca.binnacle.com/product_info.php?products_id=3070#description All I know is the PHRF committee black banded so they could be sure I wasn't cheating. Then the rules changed. There is no limit on th elength you use for your pole any more since you are destroyin gsail shape by stretching it if you over-extend your pole.

In that light, you may want ot get a pole that is big enough to double as a spin pole in a pinch.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 03/02/2009 : 17:20:49

The C-250 class rule is:

4. Whisker poles including end fittings may not exceed 16 feet 3 ¼ inches. Telescoping whisker poles may be used, providing they are banded in a manner as to appear as one 2" band at each joint when adjusted properly or two narrow bands when over-extended at each joint.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 03/02/2009 : 17:47:48

If you are going to buy the ADJ7-15HD pole, check with Defender. Also, see if anyone else in your sailing organization is interested in buying a pole. We got a discount from defender and a break in shipping by ordering several poles at one time.

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 03/02/2009 : 19:17:02

How much of a discount? Who else is in the market for a pole?

At Defender the ADJ 7-15-DL is $375. That is about $500 Canadian now that we are not at par anymore.

Edit: $424 Canadian at Binnacle! Thanks Chris!

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 03/02/2009 19:24:42

SEAN
Admiral

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USA
772 Posts

Response Posted - 03/02/2009 : 19:42:42

defender has a 10% off in the spring sometime soon

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 03/03/2009 : 10:47:32

We bought 3 ADJ6-12HD's for guys in our C-22 fleet and I added the ADJ7-15HD pole for my C-25. The 3 smaller poles were $280 and my ADJ7-15 was $324, plus s/h. Total s/h was $49. I charged the guys $290, so my net cost for the larger pole was $343. This was in May 08, and the single item prices quoted were $298.83 and $342.34, respectively. The box was under 8' long, so it could be shipped UPS.
Because the ADJ7-15 is a 3-section pole, it stores nicely in the quarterberth under the cockpit floor when not sailing.

Edited by - on

Larry Folsom
Deckhand

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1 Posts

Response Posted - 03/03/2009 : 11:11:21

What is your PHRF rating with the 110%? Do you know what it will change to (or if it will) with the larger jib?

I race my C250 WB on Lake Mead with the Nevada Yacht Club. I am considering buying a larger jib then my standard 110%. My current rating is 230.

Thanks! Larry

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 03/03/2009 : 12:57:30

Hi Larry,

Welcome to the Forum!

My sailclub is presently revamping its web site, so I cannot access my statistics. But from an email I got last year my PHRF is set at 252 with a 110%. An exceprt from the email:

"So what we have done here is to take the PHRF-NE rating for a Catalina 250 CB version at 225. No spin, so adjusted it +18 sec, 110% jib + 9 sec. That will give you a rating of 252. Will wait for Don to do the final number crunching before I move you from your present 243."

I know going with the larger jib will set me back on the PHRF, but to be honest I would rather have that than constantly be behind the pack. I want to race with the pack.

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 03/03/2009 : 13:56:24

For the people with experience using a whisker pole under racing conditions;

Do you leave the pole mounted on the mast pad eye or remove it all together when going upwind taking it back with you to the cockpit? I like the Pad eye car on a track idea but for this season will go only with a regular mast pad eye.

When racing, and turning the first buoy (now going downwind) what are the steps involved to be the fastest? I would connect the jib sheet end then attach the other end to the mast eye. Maybe there is a better way? tips and tricks?

I found this video and posted it on my website: http://vidanova1.mysailboatblog.com/2009/03/03/using-a-whisker-pole-video/

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 03/03/2009 16:46:12

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 03/03/2009 : 16:59:40

Steve, if you order in the States, don't forget the brokerage fee. It could be hefty on this!

Also, we have ours mounted on a sliding track but (embarassing) I don't know when to raise/lower it so the eye mostly stay at the same location.

I clip ours onto the shrouds when not in use and it lies on deck pointing forwards, ready for action. Our deployment/recovery is dismal. A definate improvement point for this season.

Edited by - Prospector on 03/03/2009 17:02:15

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 03/03/2009 : 22:08:44

When sailing , I'll also clip our pole onto the shrouds and let it lay on the deck, or hook it onto a caribiner on the lifeline with the bow end hooked onto another caribiner at the base of the bow pulpit. Once back at the dock, or when I know it won't be used, it goes down below, out of the weather and out of sight from sticky fingers.

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 03/03/2009 : 22:41:20

I cannot beat binnacle at $424 with free shipping! That is way less than getting it from the States. I guess they still have a few in stock back in the days when the money was at par. Boy does it suck being back at .79 again! I`m gonna get hit on the sail. I plan to buy from http://www.nationalsailsupply.com/. Unless Chris you got another good Canadian spot for me to buy my 150%?

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 03/03/2009 22:42:58

Turk
Admiral

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USA
736 Posts

Response Posted - 03/04/2009 : 05:35:34

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dmpilc
 When sailing , I'll also clip our pole onto the shrouds and let it lay on the deck, or hook it onto a caribiner on the lifeline with the bow end hooked onto another caribiner at the base of the bow pulpit. Once back at the dock, or when I know it won't be used, it goes down below, out of the weather and out of sight from sticky fingers.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

We have always kept the pole down below only bringing it up during the race on the downwind. I guess I never thought about keeping it up on the bow. Clipped to the lifeline and bow pulpit carbiner, does it affect the jib at all during tacking? Looking at Steve's video, I would never keep the pole vertically on the frontside of the mast. Even the mast front ring seems to get in the way of the sheets and I have to send crew up there to untangle the sheet from the ring. Can't imagine the problems I would have with a pole clipped to the ring and up vertically.

I bought some rigging tape to "smooth" the gap between the ring and mast so the sheets won't catch there. To much going on to have a sheet get jammed.

Edited by - on

Turk
Admiral

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USA
736 Posts

Response Posted - 03/04/2009 : 05:51:11

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Blackburn
 For the people with experience using a whisker pole under racing conditions;

Do you leave the pole mounted on the mast pad eye or remove it all together when going upwind taking it back with you to the cockpit? I like the Pad eye car on a track idea but for this season will go only with a regular mast pad eye.

When racing, and turning the first buoy (now going downwind) what are the steps involved to be the fastest? I would connect the jib sheet end then attach the other end to the mast eye. Maybe there is a better way? tips and tricks?

I found this video and posted it on my website: http://vidanova1.mysailboatblog.com/2009/03/03/using-a-whisker-pole-video/

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The first thing my crew and I practice when we go out is puting out the pole and the downwind turn. They all groan!

Why do they groan? Because there are a 100 things that can go wrong on that turn and something always seems to happen. My advise to you is to practice as if you where in a race and that the time matters.

Do not put the pole on the mast (see my other post) as it will get in the way of the sheets in the rest of the race. Especially in light wind.

Mark the end of the pole that clips on the jib. I can't remember how many times my crew set the pole only to find out they could not reach out to telescope it out.

Get the pole down quickly before you make the turn home. The upcoming jibe with the pole out could hurt someone in heavy air!

You have to connect the pole to the jib first than the mast and finally extend it out. I usually wait to see how the wind is after the turn and which side to set the jib. If you're not in the lead, watch how others have the jib set.

Our 250's have a lot of sail and do well on the downwind especially wing on wing. You have the advantage to crank up your keel on those very light days. Just remember to put it back down.

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 03/04/2009 : 12:40:06

Oh so you attache both end THEN extend the pole. I didn't know you could do that.

I think bringing the keel up is illegal in racing.

Edited by - on

Turk
Admiral

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USA
736 Posts

Response Posted - 03/04/2009 : 13:09:35

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Blackburn
 

I think bringing the keel up is illegal in racing.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Is it?? Anyone?

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 03/04/2009 : 13:25:15

We have always put th epole up collapsed, and then extended it.
Our technique is a little different from Turk's though in that we attach a topping lift as well, so that we get a little weight off the sail.

EDIT TO ADD: Our pole will not allow you to open the gates if the pole is fully closed. You have to extend each end of it about 3" and then the ends will open. [/edit]

Clip pole to mast
Tie topping lift to outboard end of pole
Grab sail as we let it out, and clip pole on bowline
Extend pole,
Establish proper course
set topping lift.

We tend to play the sheets on the downwind leg to maximize our speed.

For a Canadian Loft, I'm not sure if they have used stuff but the guys at "Performance Sails" are taking care of fixing up our tapedrive right now. They are located in the GTA. They make some good equipment. http://www.performancesails.ca/

If you call them tell Tal I sent you! (I can use a discount on my next purchase!)

Edited by - Prospector on 03/04/2009 13:28:47

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 03/04/2009 : 14:49:40

When racing we keep the pole extended to the correct length and store it on the port side deck inside the stanchions (it goes from the bow pulpit all the way back to the last stanchion) and it is quite safe there. To deploy, the foredeck crew lifts up the distal end and hooks it into the clew, pushes out the pole (with sail attached) alongside the forestay on the side on which it will be set. The butt end is attached to the mast ring and the foredeck yells "set", whereupon the genoa trimmer (with the foredeck crew pushing the pole outwards) sets the sail.
To douse, the pole is unclipped from the mast, the sheet eased and the pole moved back while tripping the release line. The genoa is re-trimmed and the pole slid back in its place.
(I have a small diameter line attached from bridle to bridle, long enough so that when the pole is fully extended the line fits snugly against the pole.)

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 03/04/2009 : 15:11:05

Ok that makes a lot of sense. I guess I'll have to test all of these techniques and see what works for me and my crew. Shouldn't it be the jib sheets that pass through the pole end. Should be faster then when tightening, the pole will slide up to the clew?

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 03/05/2009 : 10:34:05

Steve, if you put the pole in the bowline of the jib sheet the pole slides back to the knot rather than forward to the clew. This lessens slightly the sail's deployment.

On our light air 150%, the clew cringle is too small to take both sheets and pole, so I spliced a 3" circle of 3/16" line through the clew to take the pole.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 03/05/2009 : 12:27:54

If you use a cow hitch to attach your single line sheet to the clew, make another knot with both sheets about 2" from the clew. Then hook the pole to one or both of the sheets between the clew and the added knot.
Also, one of our C-22 guys lashed a stainless ring to the clew of their 150 and he attaches the pole to that ring. works for him.

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 03/13/2009 : 21:17:21

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Blackburn
 I cannot beat binnacle at $424 with free shipping! That is way less than getting it from the States. I guess they still have a few in stock back in the days when the money was at par. Boy does it suck being back at .79 again! I`m gonna get hit on the sail. I plan to buy from http://www.nationalsailsupply.com/. Unless Chris you got another good Canadian spot for me to buy my 150%?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Quoting myself here...hmmm talking to myself? Winter is long!

Just wanted to say that I just placed my order at Binnacle for the a Forespar ADJ 7-15-DL. $424 Canadian with free shipping, that's $329 US. WestMarine is $388. Still darn expensive for an aluminum pole, but I know its going to last me forever. Thanks again for the tip Chris (Prospector).

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 03/13/2009 : 21:38:25

No Prob Steve. Lets see if your Pole makes it to Calgary faster than my LEDs make it to Toronto...

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 03/23/2009 : 15:50:12

Just got my Whisker Pole. It's quite impressive. Very strongly built. Do you keep it attached with a line or something in case someone drops it overboard?

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 03/23/2009 : 21:12:21

Duh

how much? $200???

Paul

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