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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Wiring an electric start motor

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Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/11/2009 : 13:40:38

I am going to upgrade my LS 1999 Honda 8 manual start outboard to a 2009 Tohatsu XLS electric start outboard. I had some questions from those who have done this.
1. The info says 8' electric cables are included with the engine. Anyone know what gauge?
2. I need 15' cables to reach my batteries. What would be the best way to splice this heavier gauge wire together?
3. I have two Group 27 batteries wired in parallel powering low power accessories, the largest being my auto-pilot. would it be wise to leave these as I have them or separate them to insure I have power available for the electric start? The engine comes with a pull-start cable also, just like a manual start engine.
4. Any thoughts if I should wire the motor through the 3 way switch or directly to the battery? If you go directly to the battery how would you utilize the motor to charge "both" batteries?

Joe Wergers
Utopia
Fleet 7/Oceanside, CA
78 C25 FK/SR #381

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2009 : 16:01:45

Good choice on the o/b. I've got the Nissan version. One of my prior owners ran two real heavy insulated wires, 8 or 10 gauge I'm guessing, from the battery compartment under the aft quarterberth to the area under the inside shelf at the stern. On the stern ends of the cables there are ring connectors and a short nut & bolt. My cables from the o/b go through an opening in the stern under that shelf and connect to those nut/bolt terminals and each connection is wrapped securely in black electrical tape. Be sure you make the connection at the stern before you connect the longer cable to the battery. I have only the one battery so I don't know how to answer the other questions.
If I were starting from scratch, I would make the thru-hull opening higher, like above the shelf and my motor mount. Others in the Association have installed a connector socket in the stern like those used for electric motors and the cables from the o/b are attached to a plug that fits into that socket. Makes removing the o/b easier when you need to. If you go that route, use the largest size wire that will fit into the back of the socket.

Edited by - dmpilc on 03/11/2009 16:08:22

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2009 : 16:37:28

David,

We had a similar setup on Iris. I wasn't much of a fan of it, mostly because of the visible wires in the quarter berth, so I re-ran the wiring such that it now goes from the batteries (through a fused link), under the aft berth to the transom, and then up the transom behind the inspection plate in th eQ-berth to a bus bar (all 8 GA). the Bus bar provides connection to "Things I turn on from the cockpit" This includes the OB (more 8 GA) whose switch is in the Stbd Coaming Box, a cigarette lighter in the Stbd coaming box, and the Tiller pilot in the port coaming box. Since none of this runs through the panel, it is all on so long as the 1-2-both switch is on.

Getting the wire up the transom is a bit of a trick. I dropped a washer on a string down between the transom and th ecabin liner, then used a magnetic pickup tool to fish it back to the openings in the quarter berth.

Edited by - Prospector on 03/11/2009 16:54:53

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2009 : 16:50:49

Joe,
I installed our Tohatsu last year, and I'm pretty sure the wires are 4 gauge. I used a large cable clam to go through the round down on our C-250, and I don't think it's ever leaked. I haven't actually check the battery compartment to verify lately, but I expect that'll it'll still be dry.

As far as making joints, you might be able to find some butt connectors, but make sure you use a swage with enough oomph in it to be able to make a good joint. They also make connectors that have the solder already in them, and you may be able to simply solder them together with a torch. You might also be able to find a mechanical connector that screws down onto both ends of the cable, or use a buss bar to make the connections.

I don't think I'd bother with making separate circuits for a starting & hotel load battery. It's too easy to pull start the engine if there's no battery power to make it worth your while. I try to alternate between the two when I go down to the boat over the winter, just so everything gets a bit of exercise.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2009 : 19:53:59

The 8 foot wires that come with the Tohatsu end in small 1/4 in ring terminals. I bought heavy tinned marine wire and put matching ring terminals on one end and simply held them together with small bolts and nuts. They are then coated in shrink tubing and then tape. You want to be able to disconnect to service the motor. By the way, I ran the wire into the lazerette through the air vent. My screw connection is laying on the bottom of the lazerette by the gas tank (well insulated!)

The extension wire is then led to one of the batteries. I crimped the correct size ring terminals on the wire and connected directly to the battery. Do NOT get the voltage reversed or a small fuse under the engine cowling will blow. This is a small size yellow modern style auto fuse, rated 20 amps. There is a spare under the cowling.

Note I bypassed my battery selector switch. It would be better to incorporate that. But I wanted a straight run for efficency.

I always have the battery switch on "both" so the motor is efectively charging both batteries. I can isolate one if needed.

The motor seems to put out lots of current even at low RPM and I almost never use shore power any more.

When I did run the batteries down almost to zero at Catalina running my electric cooler the motor pull starts really easy.

Never, ever, again will you have to clear an idle jet. Never, ever, will the prop pull out of the water. Never will you pull start the motor. MPG under power is much better as well.

Motor likes a little choke when starting. If you tilt the motor up and out of the water all the way, then heel to 40 degrees and a wave hits it, it will unlock and fall down. I tie a rope to it in these conditions. Motor came from the factory with the idle speed way too high. Don't forget it does have gear oil but NO crankcase oil when shipped from Online Outboards.

I love the motor.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2009 : 19:57:16

Also I sold my Honda 8 on Bloody Decks (local fishing board) in 5 minutes for $500.

I kid you not. I posted the for sale and I was called as soon as I clicked "post". The guy met me at lunch and gave me cash.

People want these motors for dingys.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2009 : 20:06:31

Jim,
I hate to say it, but you probably far undersold your engine. I sold a 1997 Johnson 8 hp two stroke for $850 about a year ago. Same thing, it sold the same afternoon I posted it, and I had several more people inquire about it. I could have probably sold ten of them at that price.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2009 : 22:53:03

Unfortunately, even an XLS will come out of the water, but the rest is true. I use a trolling motor plug/receptical and like the easy connection.

Edited by - on

sweetcraft
Admiral

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USA
816 Posts

Response Posted - 03/12/2009 : 07:24:54

I also use the trolling motor plug and receptacle and keep it high. The additional wire, #8, is wired to the battery switch. I used the isolator from there so that both batteries are charged no matter which battery is being used. I still avoid switching batteries when the outboard is running just for safety of the charging circuit. The only circuit that by-passes the switch is the automatic bilge pump.

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 03/12/2009 : 11:32:20

Thanks for the great feedback guys. Based on what was said I believe I will wire the positive through the 3-way switch (as it is now), add an inline fuse close to the battery, and take the ground all the way to the battery bypassing the ground buss bar. The pull-start option lessens the worry significantly that the batteries will run down. I have always run my fuel line through the air vent but I believe, with the addition of the electrical wires, I will install an access port high on the transom for the wires and fuel line to feed through. I have never liked the fact that the air vent faces forward and you have to do a 180º turn back to the engine. My boat is in the ocean 365/40/24 so I believe Jim’s recommendation to bolt the ring terminals together inside the lazarette would be a better solution then a connector mounted on the transom. I have this connector for connecting my auto-pilot but it is in a well protected area. My engine is the same Honda as Jim’s was and I will set the price higher based on your experiences. The engine runs great now after a few years of fighting jet problems and I would not be replacing it except for the fact it is a long shaft (not XLS) and I want an engine my kids or wife can start if I should not be able to.
I am a bit confused as to what is being referenced as a clamshell connector. Are you talking about a clamshell vent or one of the compression feed-throughs?

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 03/12/2009 : 12:06:35

I was referring to a [url="http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/producte/10001/-1/10001/46513/377%20710/0/clam%20connector/Primary%20Search/mode%20matchallpartial/0/0?N=377%20710&Ne=0&Ntt=clam%20connector&Ntk=Primary%20Search&Ntx=mode%20matchallpartial&Nao=0&Ns=0&keyword=clam%20connector&isLTokenURL=true&storeNum=5003&subdeptNum=3&classNum=30"]cable clam connector[/url].

The instructions tell you to razor knife from the edge to the hole you'll drill in it, but I was able to feed mine through the figure eight shaped cutout I drilled to match the profile of the cable. It took some patience to do, but it worked out. When you drill it, first freeze it for a couple of hours to make it easier to drill, and drill a bit undersized so you get a tight fit. This isn't critical because the compression as you screw it down will take care of any gaps. When I drilled mine, after freezing it, I clamped it down on my drill press table, and drilled the two holes alongside each other, then razor knifed out the bit between them to closely match the Tohatsu cable profile. You can sort of see it here, directly below the tiller pilot, it's the round white thing with the black cable coming out of it. I don't have a better photo online, sorry.

Hope this was helpful.

Edited by - delliottg on 03/12/2009 12:08:53

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 03/12/2009 : 12:17:21

Here is another product that may give the desired result. I have never used one of these, but it looks like you would get your wire securely attached, and only have to drill a very small hole for each lead.

http://www.riggingshoppe.com/browse.cfm/electrical/batteries-and-accessories/terminal-feed-thru-3/8-small-black-250amp/4,20690.html

I am sure you could find an American source for these.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 03/12/2009 : 13:37:04

I was very pleased with my trolling motor plug and it fit through the scuppers!

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 03/12/2009 : 21:07:11

I have the clamshell vent, installed by a PO. I really like Pastmember's trolling motor plug and almost went that route, just didn't want to spend the $40 extra bucks or fill in the old hole.

Edited by - on

swanny
Deckhand

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USA
24 Posts

Response Posted - 03/14/2009 : 01:37:37

I've read and heard one danger of wiring your outboard charger through the 3-Way switch (guessing this is the OFF-1-2-BOTH Switch) is if the switch is left in the OFF position while the engine is running there is a possibility of damaging the charging system on the outboard. This is because the outboard depends on the battery/ies to absorb the load supplied by the charger thereby leveling and/or reducing voltage spikes from the charger that could cause damage to the charging circuitry.
I don't know that this is the case for ALL outboards and I have not been able to verify this all 100%, but it is the reason I left my outboard wired direct to the batteries and added a battery isolator.

Best Wishes,

Corey

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2009 : 10:47:30

Corey,
I have seen this mentioned before. I know my Honda engine warns that if you disconnect the batteries from the charging circuit while the engine is running you run the risk of blowing out the diodes in the rectifier due to the spike caused by the loss of load. However I run it all the time without it being connected to the batteries and it has not damaged it. As you say it may be a problem for some engines and not others. I will have to read the Tohatsu manual and see what they state for my new engine. Is this problem referenced in your engine manual or is it something you read online?

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