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Bottom painting -- next steps???

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5376 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/21/2009 : 23:29:44

So I'm almost done scraping all the moonscape (bottom paint) off Passage and I've gotten it right down to the gel coat. I've got to finish the keel. I still have to figure out how to get around the jack pads holding the boat up

Interesting thing - I found a rectangular patch amidships on the bottom starboard side (which was done very well by the way) and a long scratch on the port side which was also nicely repaired.

So I'm wondering what my next steps ought to be? I think I'll want to wipe the bottom down with acetone to clear any mold release wax, and then lightly hand sand the bottom to rough it up.

Several people have suggested applying a barrier coat. I looked it up and I'll probably need 3-4 coats. The gel coat is in good shape. Not one blister on the bottom of the hull.

Here's a photo I got today

I thought there might be some kind of binding primer I could apply. Any suggestions? I am planning to apply West Marine ablative bottom paint. I read about a no-sand primer and I might give that a try.

Anybody got any personal experience on this? Anybody do it the wrong way?

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Edited by - on

hinmo
Navigator

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USA
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Response Posted - 03/21/2009 : 23:35:25

looks like mine, wondering the same thing!

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 03/22/2009 : 07:35:03

Nice job!

As far as the jackstands are concerned, just ask the yardman to move them for you. It only takes 10 minutes. My yard will do it at no charge, as long as you don't ask them too often, but every yard is different.

Wet sanding the boat lightly should remove whatever paint residue remains.

Based on the hull number, I don't think Passage was barrier coated at the factory. When I stripped mine, it had no blisters at all, but I barrier coated it, and then sold it a year later. After it has been stripped, it isn't much work to barrier coat it, but the cost of paint is a factor, especially if you're going to sell it soon. If you apply barrier coat, you won't need to apply a primer, as long as you apply the antifouling within the time parameters prescribed on the label of the barrier coat can. The best price I could find for the Interlux barrier system was from boatbandit.com, which offered a considerable discount.

I wiped the bottom with acetone, but the old paint was so tightly bonded, I doubt that it was necessary. I did it because I didn't want to take a chance of having a bad result simply because I omitted a simple step in the process.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 03/22/2009 07:37:58

Deric
Captain

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USA
408 Posts

Response Posted - 03/22/2009 : 07:55:29

I worked on the bottom of my boat last year. I performed the following steps:

1) Stripped the bottom to gel coat - - chemical stripping, scraping

2) Cleaned bottom after stripping with solvent
Rust fixative on rusty areas on keel, and glassed over

3) No blisters, but I barrier coat applied - 4 coats of Interlux 3000E

4) Applied Micron Extra -- three coats: first coat red, next 2 coats blue

Here is a picture of the hull/keel before barrier boat

Here is a picture of the keel after the barrier coat and bottom paint.

Here is a picture of the boat after all work is done.

Deric

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 03/22/2009 : 07:55:46

I might be inclined to do the solvent wipe (acetone) after the sanding instead of before.

Also, toilet bowl cleaner will quickly and easily clean up that brownish, scum line haze.

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hinmo
Navigator

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USA
248 Posts

Response Posted - 03/22/2009 : 12:32:18

Do you have to wet sand? Isnt dry sanding ok?

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 03/22/2009 : 12:39:59

Hi Bruce... If the scratch on the port side was above the waterline, that was my repair after a powerboat with a stainless rub-strake sideswiped me while trying to make a turn in a tight channel. The square patch is something I never knew about--glad it's OK.

I recall learning somewhere that by 1985 Catalina was using the newer, blister-resistant gelcoat, so I have no strong opinion about barrier coating... It would be more important in fresh water, which is more prone to causing blisters. The jack-stand problem just requires one additional stand to put in place in order to move each one. But most yards stipulate that you can't do that yourself

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Jefffriday
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USA
198 Posts

Response Posted - 03/22/2009 : 14:33:23

I got to attend a paint seminar with an interlux rep last month at Kansas City sailing in Lawrence Kansas, (great shop by the way. http://www.kansascitysailing.com/) I learned a bunch about paint/barrier coats. I would recommend a talk with one of their reps about what you should use for your environment. They have made some improvements to the Micron barrier coats so you have much more time flexibility on re coating and anti fouling application. If you need a number for the Interlux Rep, call Bruce at KC Sailing 785-841-SAIL (7245) and he will hook you up.

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Deric
Captain

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USA
408 Posts

Response Posted - 03/22/2009 : 16:39:38

A reminder: please ensure to wear a quality filter face mask.
Safety is very important with this type of job.

Good suggestion -- above -- Jeff.

Best,
Deric

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5902 Posts

Response Posted - 03/22/2009 : 18:58:04

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by hinmo
 Do you have to wet sand? Isnt dry sanding ok?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">A marina employee introduced me to wet sanding. IMHO, it removes material as fast as the ordinary random orbit sander and is easier. You have to use more expensive sanding disks with a heavier backing, because thin sandpaper will tear apart when wet, but one sanding disk should last for your entire boat. I used 9" sanding disks that I believe are usually used on small floor sanders, because, when you fold them in half, they fit the hand nicely. When you dry sand, the paper loads up quickly, and you have to stop frequently to clear it. When you wet sand, the water washes the paint residue out of the grit, allowing it to cut better. The water keeps the toxic dust from becoming airborne. That means you don't have to wear goggles or a respirator. When you wet sand, you don't have to hold the weight of a sanding machine against the hull until you become arm-weary. It's your choice whether you wet or dry sand, or use a machine, but wet sanding has a lot to recommend it. When I stripped the antifouling on my 35' boat, I had all but one or two layers of the old paint planed off, and I chemically stripped and wet sanded the rest.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 03/22/2009 21:32:02

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 03/22/2009 : 21:54:28

I second Steve's recommendation... I use the foam-backed 3M sanding blocks to wet-sand by hand, using heavy rubber gloves and rinsing the blocks out in a bucket (or under a hose). They don't disintegrate. The primary benefit in my mind is the total elimination of toxic dust. We're talking about stuff that can affect you years down the road.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 03/22/2009 21:57:02

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
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Response Posted - 03/23/2009 : 10:31:31

Those foam sanding blocks are also very good for wet-sanding, especially with soap, the topsides prior to waxing the hull. Used VERY lightly with soapy water, they are also good just for hull cleaning.

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5376 Posts

Response Posted - 03/23/2009 : 21:21:11

I like the idea of wet sanding, because I've got some old paint residue on the hull.

I think these are my next steps:
(1) Put on my respirator, goggles and hood.
(2) Wipe the entire hull down with acetone.
(3) Patch some gouges - seems there is a series of little bitty cracks on the forward edge of the keel, and a series of test holes that were patched long ago. Could have seen a hard grounding once !?! The keel bolts look pretty nice and new, so I shouldn't worry about my keel dropping off....
(4) Wet sand.
(5) Coat with 3 coats of barrier coat (the Housatonic River is brackish - sometimes salt, sometimes fresh)
(6) Paint with two coats of ablative paint.

So, then by about the fouth of July, I can probably launch!

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 03/23/2009 : 21:43:45

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Voyager
[br}(6) Paint with two coats of ablative paint.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">For the first time, it's recommended that you do the first coat (your "signal coat") in one color, and then put two coats of a contrasting color on top. Use one of the anti-slime versions. Then you won't need to repaint the entire bottom--almost ever! A quart or so a year will let you touch up where the signal coat is appearing, which may not happen in any given year, and make the waterline pretty. (You can also do that with some lacquer thinner on a rag.) Ablative paint lasts and remains effective a long time on sailboats. You really don't want to keep building it up. Also, every time your river switches to fresh water, it kills off or inhibits some of the salt-water growth.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 03/23/2009 21:44:27

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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5376 Posts

Response Posted - 03/24/2009 : 21:53:06

Dave -- unfortunately the grass doesn't know that . . . I have to use an ice scraper to remove it

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2009 : 08:23:22

Were you using an anti-slime ablative (with Irgarol or Biolux)? It should keep the grass off, especially if you go sailing now and then.

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KiteKraemer
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191 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2009 : 20:25:21

I'm about to do a bottom paint on mine. I wasn't thinking wet sand but I good idea it is!!

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2009 : 20:32:57

Kite... Use heavy rubber/vinyl gloves--you shouldn't get the residue on your skin.

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 03/25/2009 : 21:32:48

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 Kite... Use heavy rubber/vinyl gloves--you shouldn't get the residue on your skin.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I use vinyl (not latex) surgical gloves that I get at any drug store for about $10. for a box of 100. They can withstand the harsh chemicals, and, if they get paint on them, and I have to answer the phone, I can just peel one off and throw it away, and pull a fresh one out of the box. When I'm wet sanding, I like to feel the surface periodically to see whether the surface is smooth enough, and surgical gloves are thin enough to allow you a good sense of touch, without having to take off a glove.

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 03/25/2009 : 21:46:46

No Dave, I did not get the expensive stuff -- WM had a big sale in January on the standard ablative and I went for that. Maybe I can use the stuff I bought for a signal coat, and the Irgarol for the top coat.

I've been using a very solid pair of rubber gloves. But the only problem is when I'm done working, I have to turn them inside out and dry them out with a towel, otherwise they stay wet 'til the next time. Wet, cold and uncomfortable I might add

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KiteKraemer
Navigator

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Response Posted - 03/28/2009 : 15:57:15

Residue from the sanding or the painting?

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 03/28/2009 : 17:09:12

Residue from the scraping and sanding is the biggest problem. It goes everywhere.

I use a respirator, goggles, hood and remain fully covered up on my arms and legs when sanding or scraping.

Once the boat is cleaned down to the gelcoat, the barrier coat and the bottom painting are a snap. But, it is still a good idea to wear gloves, goggles, a hat and long sleeves and long pants to prevent drips, speckles and flecks getting on your skin.

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