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Is there such a thing as a Light Bottom Coat?

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KiteKraemer
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Initially Posted - 04/03/2009 : 21:21:46

Wondering about the right product to apply.

I have my boat out of the water now and wanted to do a light sand and bottom coat. I know there are hundreds of products-- some of which I've read about in previous thereads--- Any great breakthrus? The boat will be in freshwater.

Thanks!

Unicorn
78•C25•SK
Hood River, Oregon
http://www.eclipsefilms.com/unicorn.jpg

Edited by - KiteKraemer on 04/04/2009 13:01:22

pastmember
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Response Posted - 04/04/2009 : 13:10:37

Kite, if by light sand you mean simply prepare the current bottom paint for an over coat then you are limited in your choices to what will adhere to your current paint. What is on your boat now?

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KiteKraemer
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Response Posted - 04/04/2009 : 14:41:50

Not sure exactly so I took these pics. I could as well make a splash without doing anything, I just thought since the boat is on a trailer now, I could slap something up

As I remember, the po said don't rub on it (when cleaning the hull) or it will smear onto the white part of the hull. It might have been some gel kinda stuff..

I realize the keel needs some work

Edited by - KiteKraemer on 04/04/2009 14:49:22

pastmember
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Response Posted - 04/04/2009 : 16:40:16

That would be ablative.

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 04/04/2009 : 16:49:33

Ablative paints are sorta that way--they rub off like powder. That's the intention. You can put most ablatives over most other ablative paints, but you can't put a "hard" paint over an ablative. (Well, you can, but you'll be severely disappointed.) I don't think VC-17, a favorite among fresh-water sailors, can go over any paints other than itself. It would be best if you could find out what's there so you can check compatibility on a manufacturer's website... but if you can't, you'll probably be safe with an ablative (or "co-polymer") paint from WM (made by Petit) or Interlux. If you use a color other than black, the black coat will show you where the other is wearing thin, which is what it's supposed to slowly do.

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KiteKraemer
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Response Posted - 04/04/2009 : 18:54:55

Do you think I Should do a light sand on the existing ablative before I add another coat?

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KiteKraemer
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Response Posted - 04/04/2009 : 19:06:49

Update; I just tried to sand the rudder --and whatever-- coat is on the outside comes off VERY easily with tons of black dust.

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Dave5041
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Response Posted - 04/04/2009 : 19:40:39

That is what ablatives do. I just do a light pressure wash o knock off the loose stuff nd paint the areas that the red shows through and leading edges.

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KiteKraemer
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Response Posted - 04/04/2009 : 20:18:39

Check. I did a pressure wash when I pulled it out in the fall.

I should just go ahead and apply over the top of the old huh?
Is VC-17 the stuff?

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Voyager
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Response Posted - 04/05/2009 : 23:44:03

Kite -- from what I've been reading, if you have ablative on there already, just lightly sand and go ahead and put another coat of ablative over that. Don't try to cover ablative with hard paint.

The hard stuff will just flake off as the soft underneath layer sloughs off. Seems like it would be a mess.

VC-17 would be the hard stuff, so that would not be a good candidate to go over ablative paint.

So, as a very general rule -- soft over hard, but not vice versa.

Edited by - Voyager on 04/05/2009 23:49:29

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 04/06/2009 : 09:37:00

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Voyager
 So, as a very general rule -- soft over hard, but not vice versa.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">That's even a little too general. Some ablatives will soften up some hard paints as they're applied, causing the hard paint to let go and making a mess. You needn't ask how I know--Bruce probably saw some of the evidence on Passage. Ablative over ablative is usually OK... Any other combination should be checked for compatibility on the Interlux or Pettit site.

I've been happy with Pettit's Ultima 40, an ablative with an anti-slime additive--it's supposedly the equivalent of Micron Extra (I'm sure Interlux would disagree). After Defender's sale and Pettit's rebate, a gallon cost me $115.

BTW, that dust is toxic.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 04/06/2009 09:49:39

KiteKraemer
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Response Posted - 04/06/2009 : 13:43:28

Thanks guys! Yeah that dust is a MESS.

I have a respirator and will use it to do a light scrub. I probably need the whole paper suit, hat combo even to do a light sanding cuzz that stuff is a mess.

I think I'm good to go!

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 04/06/2009 : 14:22:23

As discussed on another recent thread, wet-sanding is a good option to prevent dust. You can use the 3-M foam sanding blocks with rubber gloves--rinse the blocks periodically, and then rinse down the boat when done. I suppose this isn't environmentally ideal, but everything's relative.

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KiteKraemer
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Response Posted - 04/06/2009 : 14:33:42

I did get those sanding blocks, ... It was $15 for about 9 of them.

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Voyager
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Response Posted - 04/07/2009 : 22:54:25

I used my electric block sander with 80 grit.
It buzzed right through the residual paint and roughened the shiny gelcoat surfaces.
It did not burn through [thankfully]

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KiteKraemer
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Response Posted - 04/08/2009 : 17:56:12

No electricity where I store my yacht. I'll have to perservere with manual labor....

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Champipple
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Response Posted - 04/08/2009 : 21:58:03

If you are going short term quick touch up - buy some cheap west marine ablative and put a coat on. Next time you are out of the water you can plan for a full bottom job/barrier coat etc. . If you are happy with the paint you use however, or aren't having any issues I would stick with whatever you have. VC-17 and other bottom paints are really getting expensive. VC is now 50+ bucks a quart.
Per Dave's comments above:
VC 17 will pretty much only stick to itself, barrier coat and baltoplate. Why anyone would actually baltoplate a hull only to add heavy slow VC 17(relative of course) on top of it is beyond me though.

From the interlux website
Apply to clean, dry, properly prepared surfaces only. Bare surfaces must be sanded. Do not apply VC Offshore over non-vinyl antifouling paints. Do not apply VC Offshore over aluminum. Do not use on aluminum boats, outdrives or outboards without proper barrier coats.

VC Offshore with Teflon® can only be applied over VC Offshore that is manufactured in North America or Baltoplate. It is not compatible with VC Offshore with Teflon® that is manufactured in Europe or Australia.

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 04/09/2009 : 09:23:46

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Champipple
 VC is now 50+ bucks a quart.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">These days that's cheap for quarts of bottom paint! As thin as it is, I'd say it's even cheaper.

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KiteKraemer
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Response Posted - 04/17/2009 : 20:27:47

Should I paint the Iron keel the same ablative paint?

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KiteKraemer
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Response Posted - 04/23/2009 : 21:43:09

Here's what became of it....kinda rough getting in between rollers and around keel, but got it done.

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 04/24/2009 : 06:17:41

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by KiteKraemer
 Should I paint the Iron keel the same ablative paint?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Missed that question... too late. You should put some kind of primer between the iron and the bottom paint--the copper and iron don't play well together (so the paint will flake off bare iron). I like Rust Reformer as the intermediary.

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pastmember
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Response Posted - 04/24/2009 : 08:01:27

by by boot stripe

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dlucier
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Response Posted - 04/24/2009 : 08:18:23

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pastmember
 by by boot stripe
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Ya know, when I was looking at the pics, something appeared different to me but I couldn't quite put my finger on it until you mentioned the missing boot stripe...Duh!

Anyway, looking at the actual waterline, it seems the antifouling is painted quite a bit above it.

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KiteKraemer
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Response Posted - 04/24/2009 : 08:43:04

What is the boot stripe for? Can I add one now?

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dlucier
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Response Posted - 04/24/2009 : 09:21:18

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by KiteKraemer
 What is the boot stripe for? Can I add one now?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Actually, your bootstripe, the decorative gelcoat stripe(s) just above the waterline, is probably still there. It's just under the antifouling paint now.

Edited by - dlucier on 04/24/2009 09:22:40

pastmember
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Response Posted - 04/24/2009 : 10:17:15

The one at the top by the rub rail is called a cove stripe. My local guy often paints up over the boot with out asking.

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