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Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Port side of the keel

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5378 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/04/2009 : 22:57:33

I finally scraped off the bottom paint on the port side of the keel. Now I've finally gotten the whole hull scraped.

When I finished the area near the junction of the keel and the hull, I found a long crack running along this area and several dime sized bumps just underneath this area.

I checked the material inside the bumps, and it was black gunky water, not acidic material like you'd find inside a "blister" bubble. Apparently water got in through the crack and froze over the winter and expanded.

I plan to use Don Casey's remedy for blisters nonetheless: I plan to seal the crack with epoxy and grind out the material down to the lead.

I plan on filling the voids with epoxy filler, and fair it off with gel coat.

Does this approach make any sense?

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Edited by - on

Deric
Captain

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408 Posts

Response Posted - 04/05/2009 : 07:09:45

Bruce,

I did not have cracks, but I did grind rusted areas that were pitted on the keel, I applied rust fixative, then used epoxy filler. Lastly, I applied 5 coats of E2000 barrier coat.

The areas that were in bad shape last year are not showing any sign of decay. Again I refer to the work on my keel.

The hull on my boat was sound.

Best,
Deric

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5902 Posts

Response Posted - 04/05/2009 : 07:31:58

I think a long crack in that area suggests that there is very slight movement in the keel. It might be so slight as to be imperceptible, but if you seal the crack with epoxy without preventing any further movement, the epoxy will crack again. I would suggest you tighten the keel bolts before you make your repairs. I think the factory recommends that they be torqued down, but I don't know what measurement is recommended. If someone on the forum can't provide that information, you can probably get it by calling Catalina. Otherwise, I think your plan sounds right.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 04/05/2009 07:34:49

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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5378 Posts

Response Posted - 04/05/2009 : 10:22:35

Deric - I will go with your suggestion to seal the area. West Marine sells an epoxy intended for kayaks, which they say remains flexible but sticks forever to the flexible kayak material. I wonder whether that might work?

Steve - that said, I think you may be right, it is possible there's some play in the keelbolts. I don't know. There is also another thin crack on the forward portion on the starboard side.

At the moment, the boat is sitting on the hard with several blocks under the keel, and five jacks stabilizing the boat. Could it be that when the yard lifts <i>Passage</i> off the blocks, the keel will shift?

Looking down inside the bilge, I see several very shiny and clean SS keel bolts with big flat "fender" washers and nuts holding the whole thing together. The flat washers are sitting on the base of the hull's fiberglass and resin. I would imagine there's a wooden frame beneath the glass. Nonetheless, the situation looks very solid.

Does it make sense to drill a pilot hole into the hull to check the wood, or would I be inviting seepage and eventual disaster?

[I should note that currently aside from occasional rain water that finds its way in, the bilge remains dry throughout the sailing season, and there is no saltwater component in the bilge.]

I have not tried to tighten the nuts yet. But I wonder, would it be a good idea to make a few rectangles of 0.1" sheet stainless as backing plates for the bolts before torquing them?

This might spread the torquing stress across a wider area. And, it could also indicate movement. If there were any movement in the keel bolts, it would be easy to detect it due to marring or bending the sheet stainless.

Edited by - Voyager on 04/05/2009 10:23:35

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/05/2009 : 17:35:19

Hi Bruce... Deric has the earlier cast iron keel--a completely different challenge. Passage has as much as an inch (it varies by location) of some sort of fibrous material encasing the lead, presumably to fill out the shape to match the earlier iron keels. I think you'll find that "grinding down to lead" is more like <i>digging</i> down... and that it's deeper than you might have thought. I'm not sure that it isn't asbestos, given its similarity to the casing on an old furnace I once had... so be careful. I don't know what material would be best to fair it out, given the texture of the material--maybe Marine Tex.

I think if you put just a moderate torque against the keel nuts with the keel blocked up like that, you'll snug the bolts adequately without endangering the stub. The keel is pressed pretty hard against the stub when it's blocked and supporting the boat. You could caulk the cracks and let them set up before snugging, although they're probably pressed closed as it is.

But maybe I'm too late with these comments... Sorry.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 04/05/2009 17:38:31

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5902 Posts

Response Posted - 04/05/2009 : 18:47:28

I would definitely not drill into the keel stub. The base of the keel stub is plywood, encased in fiberglass. As long as it is sealed from water intrusion, it should be in good shape. If the plywood gets wet and deteriorates, it can be replaced, but it's a pretty big job. If you have a reasonably dry bilge, it should be in good shape, except perhaps for torquing down the keel bolts just a bit.

Edited by - on

Voyager
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5378 Posts

Response Posted - 04/05/2009 : 23:16:54

Dave --
Thanks for the advice, not too late. I got my dremel out today to fair the cracks and bubbles, and I found some kind of meso-derm layer under outer layer of gelcoat. I also found the lead in one spot.

I got some epoxy and thickened it, then filled the voids. There were about 8 or 10, but it went really fast. I had 5 minute West System and it was true to its rating. I did it in thin layers, then used saran wrap to smooth out the final layer. Came out nice.

That said, I did not have time to mess with the keel bolts and nuts. Tomorrow for that.

Steve -- I'm glad you reconfirmed my suspicion that drilling into the stub would simply invite disaster down the road. Not going there.

I got 7 larger SS flat washers today, and plan to install them tomorrow, once I figure out what the torquing spec should be.

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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1181 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2009 : 10:32:17

[url="http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=11631&SearchTerms=torque"]Earlier Post Regarding Torque[/url]

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Deric
Captain

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408 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2009 : 11:01:55

Dave is correct; For I only had a fine layer of barrier coat to remove before I hit the metal on my 1978 keel. I did not have to go "digging down."

Regarding the torgue of 35 pounds. That number is very close to the 36 pounds of torgue I had read in another document -- unfortunately I have yet to find that source.

I plan on replacing my keel bolts and pin within a month.

More fun ahead.

Best,
Deric

Edited by - on

Voyager
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5378 Posts

Response Posted - 04/07/2009 : 22:56:22

Deric -- what are the exact mechanics of replacing the keel bolts and pins?

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