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"History" Discussion Continues

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Peregrine
Admiral

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830 Posts

Response Posted - 04/15/2009 : 15:04:08

Adding grease to a slippery slope?

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 04/15/2009 : 15:29:20

Randy, Good question and how do we find out. We could do a questionnaire thru a mass mailing or on the forum. Granted more would get the mailing as long as they have updated their address which I know first hand many have not. And if we mailed, many may not respond due to human nature. That would cost approximately $300 for postage alone.
A forum questionnaire may not get to all of our 600 members. We don't know how many come to our site or how often. So only those who frequent our site and have an interest to respond, will respond.
Any suggestions?
Steve A
ps, note that 333 times this topic has been visited. That does not 333 different members have read it. Also even though 28 posts have been made, only really 7 members have posted. 7 out of 600!

Edited by - piseas on 04/15/2009 15:38:34

Peregrine
Admiral

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830 Posts

Response Posted - 04/15/2009 : 15:57:00

Piseas finally hit on the crux of the issue.

"A forum questionnaire may not get to all of our 600 members. We don't know how many come to our site or how often. So only those who frequent our site and have an interest to respond, will respond."

This is the heart of everything.
Bravo, Piseas that states it clearly.

Randy,
It makes no difference who or how many members "care".
The leadership has an obligation to include ALL members in the governance of the Assoc. Mainly elections and how the leadership uses the the yearly dues, again that is $13K+ a year.
Where the history comes in is;
We have seen what happens when the leadership decides that the membership doesn't care so they need not know what is being done or who is elected.
That was a mistake and it wasn't pretty.
We are on a new and positive track with the current leadership but IMO there is some work to do to get all members informed.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 04/15/2009 : 19:10:51

So a family or person joins this association. There are only 6 things you can do:

(1) receive the Mainsheet - no one is proposing stopping that
(2) serve as an officer - no one is proposing changing that
(3) make nominations for officer - on the forum, email, or by mail to any officer, no changes there
(4) vote in the elections - that is done on line only
(5) visit the Members Only area of the website (read Telltales, get discounts) no change there. We will be adding MANY NEW DISCOUNTS, stay tuned.
(6) Race in the Nationals (very few do this, we are very likely to see fewer and fewer participants until there are no Nationals any more). C25s are not raced, nor are C250s - not in any numbers. Capri 25s have been slow to come to our group. We are in correspondence with an entire FLEET who want to join.

I've proposed adding another - (7) race in sanctioned Regional Regattas and compete for the Catalina 25/250 and Capri 25 International Association Grand Prix champion (by points/ratings like college basketball).

Non members can (and do) read and post on the forum.

The way I see it we are doing an adequate job of reaching all paying members, even those who are missing out on this great forum. I feel no further actions need be taken. We've done mass email mostly to the complaints of the receivers.

We are working on enticements for non-paying forum members to sweeten the pot so much they will join up! That should be the real issue.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3463 Posts

Response Posted - 04/15/2009 : 20:00:17

Agree - (1) receive the Mainsheet
Agree for those interested - (2) serve as an officer
Has been easy - (3) make nominations for officer
No problems voting - (4) vote in the elections
Okay -(5) visit the Members Only area of the website
I'm okay if I don't participate -(6) Race in the Nationals
I'm okay if I don't participate - (7) race in Regional Regattas.
Yes & may then join ! - (8) Non members read and post on the forum.
Easy via EMails or Forum Postings - (9) Reaching paying members
Great ! - (10) Dues support maintaining electronic Forum
Excellent! - (11) Forum managed minimizing spammers

Definitely ! - (12) feel no further actions need be taken.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 04/15/2009 : 20:19:18

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The leadership has an obligation to include ALL members in the governance of the Assoc. Mainly elections and how the leadership uses the the yearly dues, again that is $13K+ a year.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I disagree. The members should have a chance to vote and they do. The officers we elect decide how to spend the money. We elect members of congress. We do not vote on the nation's budget. If we don't like the way congress spends our money then we elect new people.

I believe all members have been given ample opportunity to engage in the life of the Association through a popular and cost-effective tool - this Forum. I am also not convinced that people who do not use this site are sitting around fretting about their lack of opportunities to influence the Association. I think they get the Mainsheet and don't really care about the rest of it. I mean, really, how hard is it to use this forum. We are not exactly at the leading edge here.

Again, are there metrics to prove otherwise?

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2009 : 12:54:16

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Nautiduck
 I disagree. The members should have a chance to vote and they do. The officers we elect decide how to spend the money. We elect members of congress. We do not vote on the nation's budget. If we don't like the way congress spends our money then we elect new people.

I believe all members have been given ample opportunity to engage in the life of the Association through a popular and cost-effective tool - this Forum. I am also not convinced that people who do not use this site are sitting around fretting about their lack of opportunities to influence the Association. I think they get the Mainsheet and don't really care about the rest of it. I mean, really, how hard is it to use this forum. We are not exactly at the leading edge here.
Again, are there metrics to prove otherwise?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Randy, I do agree with most of what you say, maybe. I don't want to compare what we do or don't do re Congress re spending of money.
As an officer, I do believe we owe the members accountability and the justification on spending their money. Do the officers, however, need members prior approval for spending X dollars?
For example, if the officers want to get together for an annual meeting at a central location, should members give prior authorization for hotel, food, etc for that expenditure? On a more realistic note, I am getting together with Jim for 1 evening for dinner and drinks. He will be nearby and as we have never met personally, we are taking this opportunity. Among other things, I am sure we will discuss Catalina 25 business. Should the members pick up the tab? (Don't jump the gun, we did not discuss the membership picking up the tab although I am sure they would approve, but rather Jim offered to pay before I got the chance). Another example, several members have come to my hometown on business or pleasure and would like a day of sailing with me on Piseas II. I take them out for dinner after a day of sailing. We have talked all day about sailing and our Association. Should I have billed the members? I DID NOT. My only point is what threshold or dollar amount or occasion, if any, should the officers get member approval? There is a level of trust and having an open Association as we do accomplishes that.

Secondly I wholly agree with you that most members don't care about about the politics or runnings of this organization. They join for one reason and that is the camaraderie and information they get from the members.

I know this for a fact because as the Treasurer, I contact each new and renewing member by email and the majority email me back telling me this. They state they join because of the forums and because the get value from the forums. And the value is more than the cost of membership-their words. The Mainsheet and the rest are a bonus and not the primary reasons for joining. And remember they join with the intent of using the internet to stay in touch as they know this Association is just that. We are not the Rotary Club. And like Jim said, they have ample ways to contact us: by phone, by personal email, by mail as our addresses are posted or on the forums. It cant get any better than that.
Steve A

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2009 : 14:02:33

Wait a minute Steve, I recall inviting you to meet me in Dana Point. I don't recall offering to pay!

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2009 : 14:21:43

Jim, OK then how about dinner and drinks on the members? Don't see why the restaurant wont take a Catalina 25 check? You and I are both signatories.

Steve A

Edited by - piseas on 04/17/2009 14:23:53

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2009 : 15:07:23

Do you think Ullman Ventura will take an Association check?

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2009 : 14:38:36

Careful guys, I get the tongue-in-cheekness but there are those that might not.

Edited by - on

Peregrine
Admiral

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830 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2009 : 23:04:50

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 Careful guys, I get the tongue-in-cheekness but there are those that might not.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hey guys I'm sure the posts were meant in good fun but John is right.
The use of membership dues by the leadership in the manner you describe once came very close to closing this Assoc.

Edited by - Peregrine on 04/18/2009 23:06:41

C25-Observer
Deckhand

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15 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2009 : 13:51:13

It is unfortunate to see the the posts from "Piseas" and know that he is a forum moderator and more concerning a signatory for the Associations funds.
His disregard for the allowing ALL PAYING members to have a voice in the elections and and his cavalier attitude towards the dues received from members is disquieting and and in OUR view should be up for review.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2009 : 15:30:13

Well "we" think that perhaps a person should be required to register with a verifiable name in order to express their opinions about named members of the association. If the anonymous "Observer" speaks for some plural, then speak for "them", not as "them".

Edited by - on

C25-Observer
Deckhand

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15 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2009 : 16:22:58

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 Well "we" think that perhaps a person should be required to register with a verifiable name in order to express their opinions about named members of the association. If the anonymous "Observer" speaks for some plural, then speak for "them", not as "them".

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Dave,
334 useless posts to to reach 10k.
Glad to help.
C25-Observer

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2009 : 19:11:34

Who said that?

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2009 : 19:28:11

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 Careful guys, I get the tongue-in-cheekness but there are those that might not.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
John, you are absolutely right. As the Treasurer, I should have not been so insensitive re these duties that the members have given me. It is an obligation that I take very seriously and would never do anything to dishonor this Association. For that I apologize to you, the officers and more importantly, the members of this Association.
Thank you for bringing it to my attention, John. Offhand remarks are uncalled for and inappropriate.
Steve A

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2009 : 19:53:25

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">334 useless posts to to reach 10k.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hmmm, I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone who contributes more timely and helpful information on this forum than Dave.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2009 : 19:59:54

Steve, You certainly do not owe an apology to me for your comments. I appreciated the humor. Our friend "the observer" was the precise person that I thought wouldn't get it or would twist them to his own ends. And, he was true to form. In fact, I should apologize to you and the membership because I should have known that my comments could bait him. They did.

We shouldn't take ourselves too seriously. This is simply a bunch of guys sitting around the cracker barrel shootin' the breeze about their favorite toys. The amount of money involved is really not very significant. (No, I'm not able or willing to bankroll the group)

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2009 : 21:13:41

John, thank you for that and I was not concerned with any anonymous observer types regarding what they might construe or misconstrue. I agree we should not take things too seriously, but money is not one of them, especially when you are put in charge of watching it- regardless of how much it is. And even though "this is simply a bunch of guys sitting around the cracker barrel shootin' the breeze about their favorite toys" I don't want even one verifiable member having concerns, not in this day and age. I am sure I can find other ways to express levity.
Steve A

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2009 : 21:35:02

I'll look forward to all 334 future post from a man who has demonstrated class in his post for at least fifteen years that I know of.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2009 : 04:12:22

Keep up the good work Steve!

Paul

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