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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

Making a plywood tiller

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/12/2009 : 01:16:52

I broke my tiller a while back, and eventually plan to laminate a new one. In the interim, I'm making a plywood tiller so I am able to sail when I want.

I picked up a quarter sheet of 11 ply marine plywood from a local wood shop. I traced out the pattern of the old tiller and cut it out on the bandsaw, then traced that one onto the remainder of the piece and then cut that one out.

Then I laminated them together with Gorilla glue:

Then I spent some time sanding it down so the two halves matched each other, and then shaping the handle:

Notice the marking for where the extension tiller fits.

This shows how it fits on the SS tiller cap:

Here I'm measuring for my power tiller mount:

Since the last tiller failed due to water intrusion, I'm drilling out any attachment points & backfill with epoxy. This shows the tiller extension attachment point. I'm routing it out using drill press & two axis stage:

It got too cold this evening to work in the garage any more, so I'll continue with the epoxy fill tomorrow. I'll post more photos then.

David
C-250 Mainsheet Editor

Sirius Lepak
1997 C-250 WK TR #271 --Seattle area Port Captain --

Edited by - delliottg on 04/12/2009 01:52:32

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5904 Posts

Response Posted - 04/12/2009 : 07:52:26

Very nice! It's a good off-season project, and it's good to have a back-up tiller, although it looks good enough to be your primary tiller.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 04/12/2009 : 08:29:15

I should have learned to use power tools.

Nice job!

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 04/12/2009 : 10:20:55

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">although it looks good enough to be your primary tiller<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I went down to the marina yesterday to take some measurements & ended up shooting the breeze with a couple of friends there for a while. I showed them the tiller and talked about how it was going to be my temporary tiller till I made the new one. The first comment was "yeah, we'll see you in fifteen years when that one breaks, then you'll make the new one".

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/12/2009 : 10:21:48

22 plies! That should be stronger than the commercially laminated tillers... Their weakness is in resisting a downward force, as when somebody (a friend of mine) accidentally sits on them. Yours might break the rudder blade when that happens!

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Deric
Captain

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USA
408 Posts

Response Posted - 04/12/2009 : 19:04:28

Hey Dave, nice work.

Are you going to create any fancy carving work in the tiller, such as a marine theme, mermaids, stars?

What else can you fabricate?

Thanks for sharing.

Deric

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 04/12/2009 : 19:34:17

Deric,
I have no plans to dress it up, the idea was to create a workable tiller fairly quickly. It's turned into a bit more of project than I thought, but it's been a crappy rainy weekend, so it's been something to keep me busy. I've got thickened epoxy in the auto pilot & tiller extension holes, as well as not quite so thick epoxy into the three mounting holes for the SS tiller cap, and smeared the extra along the base because it's not quite thick enough to fit in the cap properly. I'll add more photos in a bit. The epoxy is taking it's own sweet time to kick, so it'll be a while before I can drill anything.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">22 plies! That should be stronger than the commercially laminated tillers...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I got to thinking about this after Dave mentioned it, now I guess I should come clean. I went out & counted the actual laminations, and there are actually only 7/sheet, so total layers is 14, not 22. I'm still pretty confident in it's strength.

As far as fabrication, my experience has been that almost anything is within reach if you're willing to tackle it. My biggest problem with projects is usually procrastination, once I get going they usually go fairly well. And it not, at least I'll learn something in the process.

Edited by - delliottg on 04/12/2009 20:43:45

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 04/12/2009 : 19:58:25

Nice work David. You've gone this far, you might as well stain and finish it. It looks great. I think 14 layers is around twice what mine is.

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 04/12/2009 : 23:37:22

Update, today went slower than I wanted. It's been sort of cold all weekend, and the epoxy is taking it's own sweet time to cure, so I wasn't able to get as much done as I wanted.

I drilled out for the cap attachment:

This shows the backfill for the tiller extension:

And for the autopilot attachment:

And for the cap attachment.

Disappointingly, nearly all of these subsided. I was able to level off the extension & AP holes, but I'll have to fill the cap holes. I used what extra I had to butter one side of the base. The plywood is not quite 3/4 thick, so I need to build up the sides where it's bolted to the cap. I'll butter up the other side tomorrow evening after I've filled the subsided holes on the first side. <sigh>

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2009 : 00:43:10

David, Hope weather improves to finish that fine job you have almost completed. Can't wait to give it a try. You have done a fantastic job showing us all and the photos make it that much better. Well done. You must have such a great sense of accomplishment.

Steve A

Edited by - piseas on 04/13/2009 00:44:27

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2009 : 07:50:24

David, what do you mean by "subsided"? the epoxy sagged, or ran out?

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JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2009 : 09:26:59

Nice job!

I think I see your white can of epoxy filler in one photo. How did you get the wood colored mix - with sawdust added to store-bought filler?

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2009 : 10:23:08

Chris,
There must have been voids in the epoxy as I poured it in. I half expected this with the tiller & autopilot holes because I made it very thick so it wouldn't run out of the holes. I did them at the same time and they're not level with each other, so gravity was going to win on one or the other. However, on the three holes for attaching the cap, I purposely made the epoxy thinner so it would more easily pour & fill the holes. I guess I still got some air bubbles in there. The way to do it is to fill from the bottom with a syringe or piping baggy, but I thought it was thin enough to not worry about. I deliberately agitated all the pours after they'd had some time to settle, which usually gets most of the bubbles out. It's just another step to correct, a pain in the butt, but it's not catastrophic.

John,
The coloring comes from using aged epoxy. I've had my one gallon can of resin for close to 10 years, and it's turned sort of a dark amber color, as has my catalyst. West Systems says this is OK, it doesn't affect the strength of the epoxy, but cure times can be affected (and they have been, longer, by far). My understanding is that using saw dust to color or thicken is a bad idea with epoxy, it can get hot enough to ignite the mixture. I've only heard about this happening, never experienced it.

The good news is, after spending a few hours leaned against the wall right above one of my heat registers, the epoxy has finally cured properly. The long cure time is one of the reasons I'm delaying making a "proper" tiller from laminated wood instead of plywood. It's too easy for creep to set in, and you get your laminations out of place.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2009 : 11:27:22

I thicken with teak dust from my orbital sander, smells great.

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2009 : 11:37:56

If I'm using other than epoxy, I do the same thing. When I built a dinner table for some friends out of Peruvian walnut, I needed to fix some tearouts (very splintery wood with cantankerous grain). I mixed dust from my random orbit that I'd saved with liquid hide glue to fill the holes. If you don't know exactly what you're looking for, it just looks like random spots in the grain. I ran some different colors through the larger ones to break up their profile with a filler pen, then coated the entire table with a number of coats of lacquer. I pointed out some of the faults to the owners, and then asked them later to show them to me, they can't find them.

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2009 : 20:23:53

So, I'm getting closer.

I needed to make the end of the tiller a bit thicker to fit in the SS cap, so I buttered up the other side. Before I did this I drilled out the slumped areas around the screw holes so I could be assured of a clean bond to those areas on both sides. You can't see the other side, but I made a pretty stiff mix of epoxy and back filled the holes on the bottom with it leaving a bit extra, then pressed it down onto the wax paper you see underneath. Then back filled the other three and spread the rest of the mixture along the foot of the tiller:

Once I got it a fairly consistent thickness, I put down some more wax paper on the top to give it a nicer surface to work with:

It's starting to look like a tiller:

I managed to just keep the three bolt holes inside the epoxy, somehow I didn't get them all that well centered, but it worked out.

Tomorrow I'll take it down to the boat to make sure it fits properly. In case you're wondering, those two notches you see are to capture my Power Tiller so it won't slide around like it did on my old one.

Once I'm happy with it, I'll put three coats of epoxy on it followed by another three of Cetol, drill out for the autopilot & the tiller extension, and it'll be done.

Edited by - on

Deric
Captain

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USA
408 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2009 : 03:54:50

David,

Your new tiller is an eye catcher. I am so uses to seeing the horizontal laminated planks on tillers that your new one so interestingly different. If you have time, I'd like

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Deric
Captain

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USA
408 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2009 : 03:55:52

to see a picture of it while its on your boat.

Thanks for sharing.

Deric

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2009 : 17:02:39

Here you go:

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Deric
Captain

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USA
408 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2009 : 19:51:06

Thanks.

That tiller looks awesome.

Deric

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