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Retrieving That Jib Halyard Without Dropping Mast?

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Unsinkable2
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USA
273 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/26/2009 : 09:22:06

Of course, I would never be so foolish as to have this happen to me.

But let's just say hypothetically that someone ended up tugging on their jib halyard without thinking about the fact that the sail end of said halyard wasn't attached to anything.

And let's just say that this hypothetical sailor (we'll call him "Skipper of the Unsinkable 2") stood dumbfounded as the sail end of the halyard dutifully retreated 30 feet into the air where it now rests atop the mast, mockingly dangling it's open snap shackle. (If you close your eyes, you can almost hear the other halyard laughing at me too.)

SO... If this were to ever happen, can you think of a faster way to get the halyard down without a bosun's seat and without dropping the mast? I'm afraid dropping the mast is going to be the quickest solution.

--Skipper of the Unsinkable2
http://blog.unsinkable2.com
1977 Catalina 25 SK/SR #246 "Unsinkable 2"
1964 Lido 14 #1878 "Tomato Sloop"

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2009 : 09:36:49

Do you have access to a long pole (such as 2-3 painter poles taped together with a forked hook on the end? Some guys at our marina made one up for this purpose. It is tedious work, but it works. Otherwise, find a lightweight person to send up in a bosun's chair attached to the main halyard. You shouldn't have to drop the mast.

Edited by - on

Rich G
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Response Posted - 05/26/2009 : 09:53:15

This has never happened to me either, but if it did, I would create a triple purchase with the remaining halyard and send my girlfriend up the mast in a climbing harness after teaching her how to tie a rolling hitch for safety. It took about 8 minutes total . . . (oops) I mean . . . It should only take about 8 minutes total . . .

Edited by - Rich G on 05/26/2009 09:53:41

Tom Gauntt
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Response Posted - 05/26/2009 : 10:07:45

I know someone very, very well that suffered the same fate. Here's what I, errrr, I mean HE did.

Actually it was the main halyard, so this was probably easier to accomplish, but I think it might work for you.

I had a slide from part of the old boom gooseneck that made a very stable platform. I attached a piece of a wire shirt hanger to the slide with screws. At the end of the wire, I bent a small hook. I attached the jib halyard to one side and a retrieving line to the other and simply raised the contraption in the mast track to the masthead and just worked it back and forth, holding the halyard in one hand and the retrieving line in the other. About two minutes of fishing later, I had "hooked" the wayward halyard and all was well. Your situation might be a little more challenging in that you have the spreader in the way, but I bet you could get a few sail slugs, attach them together, and work the same trick.

In the spirit of full disclosure, it was the main halyard and the shackle was closed (the line securing the halyard actually parted or came undone leaving the shackle closed). I think this would be the easiest situation to resolve with a "halyard catcher". If the shackle is open and on the front of the mast, you will probably have a more challenging time.

I've also heard of people sailing their boats to low bridges and have someone on the bridge grab the halyard and send it back down.

Good luck. And as they say, "there are those that have, and there are those who are going to..."

I'll try to get a picture of my rig today.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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4479 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2009 : 10:23:05

I know someone who had this problem with his San Juan 21 while out on a lake. Fortunate that one of his friends just happened to sail by (with another boat hook) and notice that his halyard was about half way up the mast. The two boat poles duct taped together were high enough to get the hook into the closed bail after a few flailing tries.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
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Response Posted - 05/26/2009 : 11:40:36

Hey I did this with the main halyard. We're not perfect, eh?

I took a few lengths of 1" PVC pipe and atached them together and then fashioned a "hook" out of some heavey wire to snag the shackle. Took a few tries but I got it. Broke down the PVC pieces (I didn't glue them) and returned them to the hardware store.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2009 : 11:44:35

A variation on Tom's method involves tying or taping a large triple-gang fish hook upside-down to the main halyard (on the tail end), then tying a messenger ("retrieving") line below the hook, hoist the hook, fiddle around until the shackle or the loop holding it is snagged, and pull everything down with the messenger line.

Regarding bridges... If you bump the bridge, down comes the rig.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 05/26/2009 11:50:35

Champipple
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Response Posted - 05/26/2009 : 12:09:28

Send a yard guy up in the bosun's chair or harness(climbing harness not sailing harness). We once saw a skipper and crew hoist the main 15 minutes before a race only to realize that the halyard somehow became unattached from the mainsail. I recall it so vividly it is almost as If I were the guy yelling at the other owner and the crew, but of course it was this other guy. <s>I then decided</s> He then sent the culprit up in the chair to get what he had lost and surprisingly had everything attached and rehoisted by the 5 minute gun.

Seriously though, at the dock, sending someone up in a bosun's chair or harness takes about 5 minutes. I don't recommend doing this out on the open water unless it is a real serious emergency. In hindsight, the topping lift on the boat in question is rigged identically to the main halyard and has a vectran core (could handle the load) - if it were to happen again I'd hoist the sail with the topping lift and wait until were back at the dock to go aloft.. Didn't know that at the time.

Also - when going up a rig, be sure to use two halyards --the spin halyard, topping lift, main, aux or jib halyard -- I know there aren't a lot of halyards on the c-25's, but you definitely want a backup line.

Do not use the shackle either. Tie the appropriate climbing hitch, knot, lashing etc. for the task at hand. Shackles can fail, or open, especially when they are moving around and can get caught on shrouds, in kerf slots, spreaders and the like and can pop open.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
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Response Posted - 05/26/2009 : 17:40:15

After you get it down, install a jib dousing line. Your problem will not reoccur!

Edited by - on

britinusa
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Response Posted - 05/26/2009 : 18:57:28

Yep, hook on the other halyard does it.
In our case we had the furler line to grasp. Used the unused jib halyard with wire hook (v-shaped end) to capture the line.

a small crowd watched on as I tried repeatedly to grab the furler line. Took at least a couple of dozen attempts, but perserverance paid.

Now I double check the messenger is attached before I raise the mast!

Paul

Edited by - on

Even Chance
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Response Posted - 05/26/2009 : 19:27:13

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Champipple
 Send a yard guy up in the bosun's chair or harness(climbing harness not sailing harness).
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

And pay him twenty dollars for his trouble.

That's what I did.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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3758 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2009 : 21:41:51

The DCO of Pearl did it with the main. My solution was sections of (really cheap) plastic conduit with sail slugs taped on and a slip loop of 1/8" line positioned with taped coat hanger on the end and threaded through the conduit. Slide it up, catch the shackle, pull the line to tighten the loop - worked great. You could do the same with wire loops over the forestay or main halyard. If you have external halyards, you could probably even catch it by securely tying a line to the main halyard on the forwarward side and forming a slip loop to run up and catch the shackle.

Edited by - on

farrison
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166 Posts

Response Posted - 05/27/2009 : 09:08:46

Install a roller furler, that will be one less halyard to worry about.

Paul

Edited by - on

tinob
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1883 Posts

Response Posted - 05/27/2009 : 09:49:52

Mike.
This was a problem that presented itself when I was first getting to know CALISTA. It was resolved by screwing a large treble hook in the end of a piece of broomstick and hoisting it with one of the halyards not in service,( remember to affix a down haul line )and go fishing. At first it presents with a stiff pain in the neck but when you've been successful the pain goes away.

Val on the hard DAGNABIT,# 3936, Patchogue, N.Y.

Edited by - on

Unsinkable2
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Response Posted - 05/27/2009 : 10:20:16

Wow - what great ideas!

I'm really glad I asked. Now I am just trying to decide between which idea sounds EASIEST and which ideas sound most CREATIVE. Instead of dreading this, I am actually looking forward to it now.

Glad I asked, I - that is my friend - will really appreciate that I asked :)

Edited by - on

dmpilc
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Response Posted - 05/27/2009 : 10:54:51

Maybe a combination of bosun's chair and painter pole with hook. Then you don't have to send the "bosun" up all the way to the top! Be sure to attach a small line from the pole to the chair so you don't lose the pole if dropped.

Edited by - on

Prospector
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Response Posted - 05/27/2009 : 11:09:23

Instead of hooking, why not try sticking?

Buy one of those mousetraps that's super sticky, and attach it to your friend's pole-type device. The shackle should stick to it quite securely.

I have no idea how to clean the goo off your friend's shackle afterwards.

Edited by - on

GaryB
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Response Posted - 05/28/2009 : 19:09:27

As mentioned the cheapest, lightest,method to me would be the 1" PVC conduit. You could use it to support a boom tent later.

Edited by - on

Unsinkable2
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Response Posted - 05/28/2009 : 22:00:41

Good news fellas. I went down to the marina tonight armed with duct tape and bailing wire, and managed to retrieve the halyard on my second try!

Wow, I'm so glad I asked about this, I was totally ready to drop the mast before I heard about all of your - er, your friends' - experiences.

Anyway, I took a picture of the solution I used. I just bent a small hook out of wire and duct-taped that hook to the main halyard. I pulled the main halyard up, twisted the halyard so it looked like it was moving the jib shackle, and then pulled it all back down!

The pictures are right here:

http://blog.unsinkable2.com/2009/05/multimedia-message.html

Edited by - on

dmpilc
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Response Posted - 05/29/2009 : 06:57:37

Now, install the jib dousing line, 1/8-1/4" line tied to the halyard above the shackle or to the upper part of the shackle itself, run through a block at the bow, then through blocks at the stanchion bases back to the cockpit. No more lost halyard! Oh yes, before you raise the jib/genoa, attach the dousing line to the first two hanks, either inside the hooks or use twist ties. This keeps the dousing line from pulling the top of the sail sideways and binding the sail.

Edited by - on

HeelinPatrick
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Response Posted - 06/08/2009 : 08:21:44

I'll go ahead and add that monkeying on up the mast is also an option, although not necessarily recommended (don't try this at home

).

At the dock this weekend, I was working on something, unclipped the jib halyard, forgot to reclip it. 10 minutes later, zip, up it goes, all the way to the top. I had planned to take friends out, so I didn't really want to take much time rigging up some kind of pole and fishing for it.

The club had a bonson's (sp?) chair, but just shimmyin' up the mast seemed a lot less dangerous. I did a quick righting moment calc in my head, figured the 1500 lb keel acting at 3.5', and would be just enough to counteract my 160 lb body 30' up the mast. The shape of the hull acts to want to keep the boat upright too. That and if that boat started leaning, could just come back down a little. And just to be 'safe', I had a buddy there (watching with beer in hand) incase I came crashing down (I didn't have any liquid courage in me though).

Climbing the mast was actually pretty easy, even when manuevering around the lower shrouds, spreaders and steaming light. I went up on the forestay side. Skin sticks well to the aluminum, so wearing shorts and teeshirt made it easy. I also had to fix the windex while I was up there, just a quick bend to one of the pointers, and was done.

It was kinda scary though

, and at one point, the boat did heel over a few degrees when I was at the top, which being that high up and feeling that was unsettling. I knew too that the way I had it tied in the slip, it wasn't going to go real far over. Although in hind sight, tying the boat up tighter or something part way up the mast to keep it from heeling over would have been good. There would be no way I would even shimmy up to the spreaders if not tied to the dock.

Also, I learned after the fact that the marina keeps a pole for just such use. But I was curious to see what it was like going up the mast, and can now check that off the list. I don't plan doing it again, wasn't real fun.

In the future, I think I'll try using the other halyard with a hook, which seems like a decent option, and can be used when out on the water too.

Edited by - on

Unsinkable2
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Response Posted - 06/08/2009 : 09:58:32

DavidP - I have had trouble with the dousing line getting bound during dousing occasionally, but it's usually under exciting conditions that have prevented me from identifying the exact source of the bind. I am going to assume your tip about the upper 2 hanks is the cause and try your fix. Hope it solves the problem!

Impressive Patrick. I added my bailing wire hook to my ship's tool box.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2009 : 10:17:38

Regarding binding, I found (on another boat) that attaching the dousing line to the head or halyard pulls the head over sideways and causes the upper hank to bind. I changed it to attach to the upper hank--problem solved. DavidP's approach might solve it too, if the top hank is close enough to the head of the sail. I suggest having the line pull the top hank.

Edited by - on

Unsinkable2
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Response Posted - 06/08/2009 : 11:14:22

I'll try both and we'll see who's right :)

Edited by - on

pastmember
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Response Posted - 06/08/2009 : 11:52:57

Do not tie to the head, tie to the first hank and run it through about every other to third hank no more.

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HeelinPatrick
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102 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2009 : 12:21:56

I just installed the dousing line myself, love it, what a great idea! And I like the trick about tacking and not releasing the sail, the sail lays real nice on the deck, and is easy to bag. I've just used a nylon line with snap shackle. The shackle is kinda big and goes around the entire hank, rather than just the piston. I've been connecting it to the 2nd hank down, not the very top, figuring doing so would minimize binding by allowing the head of the sail to provide some resistance keeping the hank from twisting. I didn't weave the line inbetween the hanks, would only add more friction and doesn't buy you anything in my opinion. The cord just flaps on the jib every now and then. I have yet to try it in 25 knot winds, when it counts, but think it will work. I'm half tempted to rig something similar for the main.

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