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Help! Need to Haul out + Step Down Mast

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MurphyPeoples
1st Mate

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USA
45 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/28/2009 : 16:33:11

Gentlemen-
I need to step down the mast this weekend before having our newly acquired Catalina 25 hauled out for Transport to our home lake. The owners manual really only talks about raising the mast. I need to totally remove her from the step and lash her down. Can anyone kindly direct me to a post where this is expertly hashed out? Perhaps someone has a photo of how they lashed the mast to the pulpit and stern rails using wood blocks or so forth? I need all the help I can get. I've never had to step down a mast - but I'm extremely mechanically inclined. I'll have my father helping me too. The marina wanted to charge me $500.00 to do this! Ha! I think I can do it for that price. Thanks in advance guys! I promise to post photos after we take a stab at it.
Sincerely,
Murphy

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2009 : 17:53:07

As a starting place:
The no nos of mast raising and lowering are ripping things out of the deck and having the mast fall sideways... and rip things out of the deck. Dropping it at any time is a bad thing too. So bearing that in mind you need enough people to maintain complete control of the mast at all times, that is usually four people. Very few people drop their mast to the front so plan on dropping it to the rear. Loosen the mast step bolt so the nut will come off by hand, but do not take it out yet. Disconnect the front lower shrouds on each side. After slacking the side shrouds sloppy loose so the chain plates do not get damaged from the tension of the mast moving you need to position the people. Tall strong guy standing on cockpit seats at the companionway, he is the "catcher". One person, (the bow guy), is on the dock as far in front of the boat as possible, (10-20 feet). The bow guy, out in front of the bow, should have a line from the top of the mast so he can control the first 30-40 degrees of arc as you drop the mast. While the bow guy takes up his slack, the utility man prepares to pull the pin from the forestay at the bow stem. You, (if you are healthy), are the mast base guy and call all the action. You will lean into the mast as the pin is pulled from the forestay and tell the bow guy when you are ready for him to begin letting it back. As the mast begins coming back the utility guy should be at the side of the mast to help it stay centered. You are going to "hand the mast" to the catcher so you will need to move to the side of the mast as it comes back. Once you have handed it to the catcher the utility guy moves to the cockpit to help with the load; bow guy is now at the pulpit where he will receive the mast base. You now need to pull the mast pin and guide the mast forward to the bow guy. When you pull the pin you will need to keep downward pressure on the mast base or it will flip up and yada yada yada. I always used throwable cushions at the pulpit and stern rail. Speaking of throwable cushions, you will need one on the cabin top so the mast hardware will not damage the cabin top when the mast reaches horizontal; the slot in the mast base lets the mast base rise at the last.
What you do with the rigging is kind of up to you, I towed lass than 40 miles so I left them on. Use duct tape wrapped backwards to hold things; backwards so no adhesive will get on the mast.

Others will have lots of things to add.

Edited by - pastmember on 05/28/2009 17:53:34

Ed Cassidy
Captain

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USA
365 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2009 : 18:14:31

Murphy,
Taking down the mast is no big deal, there will be a dozen different ways presented. First, it's not as scary as you think. My wife and I routinely raise and lower ours because we keep the boat on a trailer. Here is our sequence; First, loosen the through bolt at the mast base. Next, loosen and remove the forestay. Take the mainsheet and connect one block to the forestay and one to the deckplate where the forestay was attached. pull the mainsheet tight to take up most of the slack. It won't remove it all. Next loosen and remove the forward stays. The only thing keeping the mast from coming backwards is the forestay. Get your dad to man the mainsheet and you grab the mast. For the first 15 feet or so, your job is to pull the mast backwards and to keep it centered. Your dad will keep the mast from coming down too fast with the mainsheet while you start by pulling on the mast backward. The first few feet will be the scariest and the easiest. as the mast gets to about 45 degrees, it will start to get heavier and as it gets closer to horizontal your dad will be less effective and it will be on you. You want to walk the mast down by walking backwards on the top of the boat. When you get to the rear of the hatch, transition the mast down from over your head and finally to the pulpit. The mast will start to get heavy but not extremely heavy the nearer to horizontal it gets. There is no need to loosen or remove the upper stays or the the lower rear stays. Once it's on the pulpit, you can remove the bolt at the base of the mast and carry the mast forward to the bow pulpit. A 2x4 across the bow pulpit is sufficient. At the stern, you can cushion the mast on the pulpit and lash it down. Going back up you will likely need a second person helping you lift if you don't have a mast crutch. If you are at all mechanically inclined you won't have a problem. Good luck,
Ed

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2009 : 18:34:04

Murphy,
If you're going to be doing this very often, you might look into constructing an A-frame from a couple of 2x4x10's bolted together at the top, and lashed to a couple of stanchions at the bottom. Search the forum for "A frame" and you'll find many-many discussions about it.

If it's just dropping the mast where it's currently at, then raising it for the season, then maybe the A frame's not so necessary. However, with the A frame, you don't have to worry about your mast going sideways, nor do you lose control of the mast as the lifting line never gets a chance to approach parallel with the mast (and lose all mechanical advantage) as you get close to horizontal.

We lash our stays & shrouds to the mast with bungees. Make sure ther turnbuckle on your forestay is secured so it can't unscrew itself as you go down the road (don't ask how I know this).

Good luck, and let us know how it goes.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2009 : 19:46:55

I like Pastmember's approach. For your first mast take down, please have at least 3, preferably 4, people there, counting yourself, definitely 4 if you have the tall rig. The TR mast is taller and a good bit heavier due to a thicker tube wall extrusion. You will definitely want someone STANDING IN THE COCKPIT as you guide the mast down. As the mast passes 45 degrees to the deck, the mechanical advantage of the forestay diminishes significantly. I also recommend doing this while the boat is still in the slip (shorter distance to fall if something goes very wrong), and keep moving around to a minimum to minimize rocking motion.
good luck!

Edited by - on

NautiC25
Admiral

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USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2009 : 06:10:31

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by delliottg
 Murphy,
Make sure ther turnbuckle on your forestay is secured so it can't unscrew itself as you go down the road (don't ask how I know this).<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Great advice to take here!

I know EXACTLY what you mean. We encountered this on our last trip to the lake. We didn't know it was missing until we got there. Didn't have extra parts on hand either.

Edited by - NautiC25 on 05/29/2009 06:14:55

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2009 : 06:27:25

The server here at the office blocks my access to You Tube but, there was a posting about a You Tube video which demonstrates this very well. Also, make a search here for "gin pole".

I understand Frank's comment about a "catcher" but, if somebody thinks he can catch a falling mast, he's looking for a lot of pain. If the mast starts to actually fall, he needs to get the hell out of the way. The catcher should be a guide to the mast crutch, not really a "catcher".

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2009 : 06:57:04

Here are my videos of lowering and then raising the mast:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r33VCObNroY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsLxujYRsMQ

You do not need all of the hardware I use, they just make the process faster. You will need the a-frame, Block at stem fitting w/shackle, a 3/8" line long enough to reach cockpit with the mast in a down position.

I will try to reply later with a step by step process.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2009 : 07:27:30

Without an A frame, I wouldn't do our tall rig with fewer than 4 people. The weight and and mechanical disadvantage of being closer to the base than the top is significant. My wife and I do it easily with a gin pole (boom) and mainsheet.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2009 : 07:56:51

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 The server here at the office blocks my access to You Tube but, there was a posting about a You Tube video which demonstrates this very well. Also, make a search here for "gin pole".

I understand Frank's comment about a "catcher" but, if somebody thinks he can catch a falling mast, he's looking for a lot of pain. If the mast starts to actually fall, he needs to get the hell out of the way. The catcher should be a guide to the mast crutch, not really a "catcher".
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
The catcher is the guy with his hands raised ready to recieve the mast, he does not catch a loose falling mast, he catches a mast that is handed down to him by the mast base owner.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2009 : 09:47:43

And now for something completely different...

I think I'm the only person on the forum who does it, but we lower our mast forward before taking the boat out of the water. The reasons for this are:
1. The deck forward of the mast step is easier for me to walk without falling in the cockpit, off a bench, or into the companionway, all of which I am clumsy enough to do
2. Its a shorter distance from the mast base to the bow pulpit, so less walking with the mast in hand.
3. The masthead instruments end up pointing forward over the dock for safe easy removal before the crane operator has a chance at them with sloppy "slingmanship" (we have friends with great stories...)

Here are the steps:
1. Clip Jib halyard to ring on front of mast
2. Remove all rigging from mainsheet, leaving the car on the bar without any lines on it.
3. place a swivel block on the mainsheet traveller car
4. Using a fisherman's bend tie a line onto the jib halyard, doubling its length (we use the mainsail halyard).
5. remove all running rigging except the jib halyard and attached line. Remove, boom, and anything that is cluttering the foredeck. You should be down to the jib halyard, mast, standing rigging, and nothing else.
6. Run jib halyard extension through the block on the traveller car, cleat off the car so it cannot move side to side
7. run the halyard extension to one of the cabin winches.
8. Tension the jib halyard so that it acts as the backstay and cleat it off.
9. Undo the aft shrouds and backstay (4 connection points with split backstay, 3 stays) - TIP: Put clevis pins and split rings back in the tangs as soon as you undo the shrouds/stays so you don't lose the pins and rings)
10. Loosen all other shrouds, and loosen bolt at base of mast. Don't remove any of them, just loosen.
10. Have one person go forward to walk the mast down, and one person man the winch.
11. With much communication, have the wincher (my wife, usually) ease out the line while the walker (me usually) keeps the mast on centre and walks it forward. Although the wincher will be doing most of the work, the winch will make it feel like there is little load.
12. Lie the mast on the pulpit. Undo the rest of the standing rigging from the deck. Secure everything so you don't lose it.
13. Go ashore and remove masthead instruments, windex, antenna.
14. Remove spreaders from sockets, we lie them against the mast with the rigging still attached and tape them in place with electrical tape. We also tape all the standing rigging to the mast at this point so they don't flop all over the place.
15. Have person 1 sit on the mast, about a foot from the step. Person 2 undoes bolt and removes bolt, nut and Bale, put these someplace safe. I put the nut & bolt back on the bale, and put them in the drawer in the galley.
16. When person 1 stands up the mast will want to come up with them. person 2 can lean on it, and bring the mast up slowy while person 1 goes to the pulpit.
17. Turn the mast on its side, and slide it aft so that the base of the mast is just aft of the pushpit.

For transport, a ratchet strap hooked onto the mooring cleat on either side of the cockpit and foredeck and made fast across the mast was enough to hold it in place for the trip from Detroit to Toronto. The mast will flex, and wedge itself against the coachouse roof. You should pad it with lifejackets or other stuff, whatever is available. I also put lashingings in at the pulpit and pushpit just because I am nervous about the mast sliding around too much.

Edited by - Prospector on 05/29/2009 09:55:29

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2009 : 10:46:24

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The catcher is the guy with his hands raised ready to recieve the mast, he does not catch a loose falling mast, he catches a mast that is handed down to him by the mast base owner.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Concur. The last thing you want to try to do with our masts is walk down from the cabin top to the cockpit seats while manhandling the mast. It's hard enough on a C-250 with the built-in mast raising trailer stuff, but I've done it while Rita cranks down the mast from the relative safety of the tailgate of the truck, and our mast is in almost total control until the last couple of feet when the line approaches parallel with the mast. In your case, you want to be able to hand off the mast from the cabin top to the cockpit without having to step down to do it. Hence the "catcher". And as mentioned before, the catcher needs to understand that they can't possibly "catch" the mast if it starts to fall without injuring themselves, a broken clavicle, or blown out knee seems like a likely event in a best case scenario.

With an A frame you can do this whole process yourself, although still a good idea to have at least another person around the first time you do it.

Edited by - on

MurphyPeoples
1st Mate

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USA
45 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2009 : 10:59:34

Okay - you guys. I'm a little worried. I have the standard rig. Embarrassingly enough, I need to re-study my sailing hardware terms. Forestay and Deckplate being the two most important used throughout your posts. I'll admit... I know "how" to use all the hardware... I just can't always remember their names. (Blushing).

I'm thinking I'll run a Jib Halyard extension through a tackle block off the traveller (like Prospector) run that line through another tackle block at the base of the Front Pulpit (which is already there) and lower the mast backwards while standing in the cockpit? Me at the base of the mast and walking it down towards the stern pulpit?

From what I understand here - I just need to leave the lower shrouds attached but loose - and the mast will travel all the way down. The Hauling company wants me to build a bow and stern wood rest and a center rest support for the mast. I'm going to use 6" stretch film to tie everything down. The packaging of it isn't the problem.... getting the darn thing down is! I'm losing sleep over this.
Murph

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2009 : 11:01:06

When I filmed the videos of me lowering and then raising the mast, I forgot the fact that my boat is already in a rigged fashion for the mast to be lowered. In other words, the shrouds are already loosened, the a-frame is attached and so on... I will try to go step by step for those of you who are starting from scratch.

1) Attach jib halyard to pulpit, cleat tight in cockpit. The mast cannot be lowered until jib halyard is released.

2) Loosen tabernacle bolt just slightly. Loosen upper shrouds five turns.

3) Loosen forward lower shrouds ten turns, remove from chainplates, then attach a-frame to chainplates. If you constructed an a-frame with tangs, attach shrouds to them. If you did not construct tangs, have helper(s) to prevent mast from swaying.

4) Attach Block to stem fitting with a shackle. Run 3/8" line from a-frame thru block to starboard winch on outsides of stanchions. Wrap two turns on winch and cleat line tight.

5) Remove Mainsail slugs from mast track. I leave sail attached to boom, you might remove it. Remove boom and place on deck. Stow boom vang, mainsheet, topping lift etc.

6) Loosen rear stay. I have a quick release lever which makes the rear stay very loose. However, it needs to be only loose enough to disconnect forestay.

7) Remove forestay from stem fitting and connect to a-frame. The mast cannot move until you release the jib halyard.

8) You are now ready to begin lowering the mast. If you have a furler, the furling line, as well as the jib halyard, need to fed out from the cockpit as the mast comes down. A helper at this postion is a good idea.

9) Uncleat jib halyard. Uncleat a-frame line. Feed out a-frame line very slowly, if the mast does not move right away, you can give a slight tug on the rear stay. Continue to feed out the a-frame line and the mast will begin to come down. Have helper feed out jib halyard/furling line.

Since I lower the mast for a bridge, I have a "mast crutch" or frame that holds the mast. You might construct one, as I did originally, out of 1.5" PVC.

Raising the mast is just the reverse, except you will wrap three or four turns on starboard winch and crank it back up. Have helper(s) pull in jib halyard/furling line. And the most important part about raising the mast is to be sure that nothing gets hung up on anything else.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2009 : 12:03:14

Murphy,
The forestay is the wire cable that attaches the forward top of your mast to the deckplate at the bow of the boat. The backstay is it's rearward lead counterpart and connects to (generally) an eye at the stern of the boat. You might need to loosen your backstay, but you don't need to undo it (unless you opt to lower your mast forward). You will definitely need to disconnect your forestay, but make sure you've rigged your jib halyard to your bow pulpit to prevent the mast from deciding to come down on it's own.

The chainplates are where the shrouds connect off to the sides and slightly aft of the mast. The shrouds are also wire cable that attach to the mast from the chainplates up through the spreaders (wing like structures about half way up the mast) then attach to the mast via tangs which are just metal plates that are bolted or pop riveted to the mast. There are four shrouds, two inners and two outers. The inners won't go through the spreaders (actually not sure on this for a C-25), but the outers will.

A good book for boat nomenclature is "[url="http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Sailor-Learning-Art-Sailing/dp/0070571317"]The Complete Sailor[/url]". I give a copy to anyone that I'm teaching to sail. Apologies to Steve, I don't know your bookstore's URL by heart, but one of our members sells sailing books online and you get a discount through the association if you're a member.

You can also look up all these terms online, Wikipedia is usually a pretty good source.

Good luck this weekend. You'll do fine, just keep your wits about you, plan what you're going to do, talk constantly with your helpers and the mast will be safely down before you know it.

Edited by - on

MurphyPeoples
1st Mate

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USA
45 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2009 : 12:15:54

God bless you David. That was expertly explained and made complete sense. I now have a decent understanding of my objective and am not as worried. I'll let you all know how it goes by Sunday and post pictures.
Murphy

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2009 : 13:34:40

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pastmember

The catcher is the guy with his hands raised ready to recieve the mast, he does not catch a loose falling mast, he catches a mast that is handed down to him by the mast base owner.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I understood that Frank. And, I know that you understood as well. I just thought "catcher" to be an unfortunate choice of words because of the obvious connotation. I just wanted to make your thought crystalline.

Edited by - John Russell on 05/29/2009 16:26:14

Tom Gauntt
Navigator

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204 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2009 : 14:27:57

Murphy,

As fate would have it, I just lowered my mast today, for the first time.

I was nervous.

My nervousness was wasted energy.

Everything went absolutely beautifully.

I must offer serious props to Davy J for his brilliant A-frame explanation and superb video of him lowering and raising his mast. Thanks Davy! Watch his video and search "tech tips" for plans for an A-frame.

I made my A-frame out of 1" rigid electrical conduit. Do not use any other kind of conduit. I used a spare line run through the genoa blocks. The line started at the A-frame, ran through a block attached to the stem head then through the genoa block back to the winch on the starboard side. I also used a jib halyard as a safety line. I attached it to a bow cleat, up through the masthead, down to the mast winch then to the genoa cleat on the port side.

With Davy's advice, I dropped the mast and it was a beautiful thing. I had two other helpers, but honestly could've done it by myself with the A-frame.

Manhandling a 30 foot mast (I have the tall rig) can be done, but it is fraught with opportunity to hurt yourself or break something expensive. A gin pole or, in my case, an A-frame takes most of the excitement out of the evolution.

I'll try to post some pictures to my website if you are interested.

Edited by - on

MurphyPeoples
1st Mate

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USA
45 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2009 : 15:43:21

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Tom Gauntt
 Murphy,

I'll try to post some pictures to my website if you are interested.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Please do! Time constraints won't allow me to build an A-frame. Sheets,Blocks, and Muscle are about all I have.
Murph

Edited by - on

dreddick
Navigator

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117 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2009 : 16:18:28

I just updated the pictures at my site when we launched a few weeks back. This link will show the mast crutch and click on the A-Frame page to see the one we use...

http://evenstar.mysailboatblog.com/tech-page/

Edited by - on

MurphyPeoples
1st Mate

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USA
45 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2009 : 04:10:34

Thanks David. I really like that set up. I plan on keeping our "new to us" Catalina on Lake Murray for the next 4-5 years at least. But when the time comes to move to Charleston, I'm going to build a set up just like that. Thanks for the post.
murphy

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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3758 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2009 : 09:04:59

The first time the Admiral and I lowered the mast, she worried for a week and really wanted me to pay $120 to have it done. I convinced her to try. She started letting out line and about 3 minutes later I called out 'mast in crutch" followed by her saying "I guess that's not worth $120.".

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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4479 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2009 : 09:42:12

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">A gin pole or, in my case, an A-frame takes most of the excitement out of the evolution.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

How to tell you've spent too much time in the USCG / USN (non-coasties / squids won't get it).

Edited by - on

Tom Gauntt
Navigator

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204 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2009 : 15:17:47

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">How to tell you've spent too much time in the USCG / USN (non-coasties / squids won't get it).<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">That's cold, David. My last CO would probably say I spent too much time in (as in I didn't leave soon enough!)

Guilty as charged, but now full-blooded civilian.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2009 : 16:17:54

I remember when we went to Gitmo, our engineering teams had to run "Becky" drills, we had no idea what that meant or who Becky was. Turned out a BECCE drill was a Basic Engineering Casualty Control Evolution.

Edited by - on

ed_spengeman
1st Mate

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USA
98 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2009 : 19:37:39

I have an 2x4 a-frame with a winch on one of the legs. I loosen the rears and uppers and take off the forwards to drop it to the rear. A number of you mention that with an a-frame, you could do it by yourself. I have a hard time keeping it centered by myself. I did learn one trick. If you park the boat on an angle (side to side), you can take the mainsheet and pass it behind a stancion and take it foward on the high side. As you lower it with the winch with one hand, you can control the side to side with one hand on the mainsheet.

What about the tabs and the shrouds someone mentioned. I'd love to be able to do it by myself.

Edited by - on

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