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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Talkin' Bout my Oxidation

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brrit
1st Mate

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80 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/16/2009 : 16:10:50

Alright guys... I've got a question.

After a couple of years of saying that I'm going to wax the boat next weekend, I've found myself with some nice oxidation going on my sailboat. My question is this:

How bad is the oxidation process to our boats?

Is it just a cosmetic issue in an effort to make our hulls shiny and bright? Or, is this chalky substance actually slowly destroying the boat?

I've seen some responses in the past that say they just leave the chalky hull. Others that respond with waxing once or twice a year. And, of course, the popular PoliGlow/Vertglas option. None of these are my issue though... I am more interested in talkin' bout my oxidation! What is it, really? If left unattended, will oxidation damage my boat in the long run? Or, will I just have a chalky hulled boat that my neighbor will scoff at?

Bryan Ritchie
"Serenity Now"
1989 C-25 TR/FK #5829
Dallas, Texas
www.athomewithdad.net

Edited by - on

Happy D
Admiral

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Response Posted - 06/16/2009 : 16:23:10

If you look at the hull using a magnifying glass, like a 15 or 20 power not those cheap drug store magnifying glasses, the surface will look like the surface of the moon. It looks full of craters where the gelcoat is degrading. It started the instant it came out of the mold. It actually resembles a heavily rusted piece of steel, without the rusty color. It will continue to degrade until it's all gone.
The biggest problem I see is that the sunlight will get through the gelcoat eventually and begin to break down the fiberglass resin that binds the boat together. The whole reason for gelcoat is to prevent the UV from getting to the polyester that holds it all together.
That'll take a long time.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 06/16/2009 : 18:10:28

Another purpose of gelcoat is to have a nice smooth surface that doe not telegraph the matrix look of the underlying fiberglass. It is a cosmetic thing.

Unless your boat is incredibly oxidized you can use wet sanding and various liquid abrasives to get back to good gelcoat. Check out the maintenance section of the West Marine catalog. It is a lot of work and many people choose instead to go the Poli-Glo route - which I did with our C22 with great results.

It will be a long, long time before the gelcoat oxidizes away on your boat.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 06/16/2009 18:17:23

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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Response Posted - 06/16/2009 : 18:18:18

Wax and other coatings break down because they absorb the UV energy and thereby protect the gelcoat. A good scrubbing and pressure wash will take most of it off, but a very fine rubbing compound or sanding is the only way to completely remove it. My hull doesn't sparkle, but it looks decent, and I just used the scrub and pressure wash. After the first wash, I used a fiberglass color restorer (purports to lift more oxidation) followed by two coats of Starbrite liquid polish with teflon. Now I just wash and two coats of polish. I would probably do a more thorough prep if I were going to invest the labor a quality hard wax finish. Poliglow isn't in my future until I get the chips and scrapes filled, and that is still way down the list.

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 06/16/2009 : 19:48:36

From what I've seen, Catalina didn't skimp on gelcoat--I've been told that the spider cracks in the cockpit are due to the gelcoat being a little too thick, especially in the concave curves, causing it to shrink as it ages, and crack. To me, the main reason for removing chalk and applying something (I used 3-M Restorer and Poly Glow) was to keep from getting white stuff on people's clothes. It's also nice to have a little shine... and seagull poop comes off wax easier than off bare, oxidized gelcoat. Anyway, I doubt that gelcoat will oxidize completely away in our lifetimes.

BTW, I've concluded that Starbrite's (AKA West Marine's) PTFE (Teflon) polish is really good--a great, durable shine with very little effort. My application in spring of 2008 lasted all summer and through the winter--water still beaded up on the hull this spring. Paste wax is becoming an anachronism.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 06/16/2009 19:53:48

Dave5041
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Response Posted - 06/16/2009 : 20:03:22

Thanks Dave, now I don't feel guilty for taking the easy road. Actually, I have been using Stabrite polish for more than a decade, and I think it's a very underrated product.

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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 06/16/2009 : 21:02:27

I'm always looking to save labor

so instead of lots of polishing on my paste wax are you recommending this?

FYI, I swear by the Starbrite Deck cleaner with PTEF but beware. Until the stuff dries it is like an ice rink on the deck. I took a nasty fall and got a good gash in my leg

last weekend while cleaning the boat. Great product but super slippery until it dries and then it is really non-skid.

Anyway if the marine polish is as good a product I'll switch to it over the paste wax if it provides good protection.

Edited by - on

brrit
1st Mate

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Response Posted - 06/17/2009 : 04:32:14

Bottom line it sounds like oxidation is really a cosmetic issue.

I like Dave's idea with the marine polish. I'll check into that and see if that provides an amount of labor I can actually do this weekend.

Thanks guys!

Edited by - on

glen
Captain

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Response Posted - 06/17/2009 : 04:59:42

If you do any POWER WASHING be careful of your teak. This is a soft wood and the full blast of a power washer can open up the grain in the wood. Don't ask me how I know

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 06/17/2009 : 07:57:17

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by glen
 If you do any POWER WASHING be careful of your teak. This is a soft wood and the full blast of a power washer can open up the grain...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Very true!

Yes, that PTEF polish is the stuff. WM used to private-brand it--now they're advertising something that might or might not be the same...

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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Response Posted - 06/17/2009 : 08:01:02

Even a soft brush will wear away at the alternating softer lines of the grain if you scrub with the grain. I used the Starbrite non-skid cleaner for the first time this year - almost zero effort with unbelievable results. The WestMarine/ Starbrite products are equivalent, so I buy whichever one is on sale

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brrit
1st Mate

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Response Posted - 06/19/2009 : 16:04:48

Alright have the deck cleaner and marine polish in hand. I'm off this weekend to see how the stuff does. I'm optimistic that this will give the level of shine/protection coupled with the amount of effort I'm willing to put forth right now. Also going to look for that extra foot while I'm out there.

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islander
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Response Posted - 06/19/2009 : 17:20:27

Remember, Wax on,Wax off.....

When I did mine I used a 7" power buffer/polisher, I'm not one to use my arm and shoulder when there is power equipment.

Edited by - islander on 06/19/2009 17:28:39

Gloss
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Response Posted - 06/21/2009 : 09:18:33

I cannot comment on whether or not oxidation will reduce the life of your boat or not. Maybe some engineer types have data.
I had a conversation last year with one of the engineers at Starbright. My question was whether or not their deck cleaner will remove wax or not. He explaines that wax merely sticks to the surface of your boat, and will wash off. Polish, however, forms a molecular bond with the gelcoat and will not wash off.
My 25 year old Ericson was seriously oxidized when I bought her.
I first compounded the cockpit bulkheads with turtle wax rubbing compound (from Wally World) I chose this product because it is white in color, not beige like 3m, and will not impart a beige sheen to the gelcoat. I bought a 7" sidegrinder type of buffer from Northern tool for about 75 bucks. The car type two handed buffer that I had sucked.
I then waxed and buffed one bulkhead with Colinite Fleetwax, made for boats and airplanes, at 25 bucks a can from West. The other bulkhead with Starbright posish with Teflon as shown on an earlier post. The polish side had a better, deeper shine than the wax, in addition to being far easier to work with. that was last s pring and the polish side resisted many washings and still looks good.
As an added note, we h ave a spider problem at my sailing club, and the resulting mess from the spider poop, and some bird poop. the starbright deck cleaner will dissolve the spider poop and remove it better than anything else I have found. I wear my Teva boat sandels when washing the deck and have no problem with slipping and bushing my ass.

With all the above said, the guy I hired to buff and wax my 25 wing so I can get her up for sale faster swears by the Meguires system of products. I must admit it looks great and the next owner should appreciate it greatly.

I'm removing the old Bristol finish with a heat gun off the teak and will refinish with Cetol Natural, a really good looking product.

It just makes sense to me to protect your gel coat, not just let it oxidize. But I'm one of th ose weird folks who take pride in a good looking sailboat.

Edited by - on

Oscar
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Response Posted - 06/21/2009 : 18:23:06

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The whole reason for gelcoat is to prevent the UV from getting to the polyester that holds it all together.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I believe the first and foremost reason for gelcoat is to keep the water out of the hull. It is (mostly) waterproof. FRP (Fiberglass reinforced polyester, ie what the boat is made of) is not. It will absorb water like a sponge, increasing its weight dramatically, and ultimately start the osmotic process.

Edited by - Oscar on 06/21/2009 18:24:32

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