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Difference in Cat 25 Model Years

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oregonworld
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Initially Posted - 06/30/2009 : 09:22:09

Hi -

I'm new to the forum. I'm looking to purchase my first Catalina 25 or 250. Can anyone point me to resource that describes the differences in each model year of the Catalina. Like buying a car, I'd like to know when upgrades, design changes and things came into place so I can make an informed decision.

I think I'm looking on a swing keel model.

Thanks,

Jared

Jared Cruce
1997 250WK "Inspiration"
#299
Honda 9.9
Ashland, OR

Edited by - oregonworld on 06/30/2009 09:22:28

NautiC25
Admiral

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Response Posted - 06/30/2009 : 10:16:36

http://www.catalina-capri-25s.com/tech/tech25/summertm.asp

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
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Response Posted - 06/30/2009 : 11:55:39

Jared, where will you sail by Ashland? I am up in Eugene on Fern Ridge Lake.

The C25 and C250 are very different boats. Your best bet is to go and take a look at both and decide what features of each you like the best.

The C25's were made up until about 1989 and feature a wing keel or fin keel or swing keel. The swing is the most prevalent. The C250 begain in 1995 and is the current Catalina model at 25'. The C250 is either a water ballast with centerboard or a wing keel.

If you get up this way I'd be happy to show you our boat.

Edited by - on

oregonworld
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Response Posted - 07/01/2009 : 09:47:39

Thanks for the link to the Buyer's guide. And the advice on 25 vs. 250. I am continuing on the quest and building momentum in finding the right boat.

Jared

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 07/01/2009 : 11:19:36

Welcome Jared! That guide, while helpful, has some misstatements... For example, C-25s were built with outboard brackets on the port side up until the cockpit fuel locker was added (1982)--they're not evidence of owners' "goofs." Fin keels were cast iron with mild steel bolts until about 1983; then encapsulated lead with stainless steel bolts. The last, best version of the C-25 came out in 1989, with a flat cabin sole (because the swing keel had been discontinued) and some other subtle changes. It generally commands the most $$.

I can't speak to the C-250 evolution--before you worry too much about that, I'd suggest you see both a C-25 and a C-250 up close and decide which you like better (and which fits your budget better). Most 250s are priced well above most 25s, but expect to spend a little more on the C-25 after the purchase--older boats generally need more "stuff" attended to and replaced.

Are you interested in trailering? Will the boat live in the water, in a dry slip, or on a trailer? Racing, cruising, and/or day-sailing? What's your sailing experience?

Keep in touch as you go along...

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 07/01/2009 11:20:39

oregonworld
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Response Posted - 07/01/2009 : 12:06:51

Thanks Dave I will. I think I'm narrowing it down to an 1983 or newer swing keel cat 25. I plan on trailering it at least a couple weeks a year and want the lightest possible 25. What is the weight difference between the wing keel and the swing keel? The wing keel seems so high on the trailer compared to the swing. Is this true?

Thanks,

jared

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
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Response Posted - 07/01/2009 : 14:06:38

The wings are higher on the trailer but offer the advantage of a fixed keel with very little maintenance. As far as launching and retrieving the wing you will probably have to "strap launch" which is not hard.

For towing a C25 from Ashland to PNW cruising grounds you will want a 3/4 ton pickup or equivalent.

I'm a C250 guy but if I were getting a C25 I'd want a 1989 wing.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 07/01/2009 14:08:00

oregonworld
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Response Posted - 07/01/2009 : 18:11:28

Randy-

On the 250 what is your take on the WB Swing Keel. I am considering finding one of these, saving weight and not having to buy a new truck. I have a 97 Landcruiser 4.5L v6 rated around 5500 lbs towing. It's probably good to put the boat in the water and take it out and get it up to the lake nearby. definitely undersized for towing long distances.

However, I'd love to know what the weight savings is with the 250 and if you like the WB. How do they compare with the 25. For my budget I've seen a couple 94 and 95s in the 10k range. What's your take?

Jared

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 07/01/2009 : 19:40:16

You can compare the basic specs (empty weights) in our Manuals and Brochures section--look at the last page of each brochure. (We don't have the C-250 Wing Keel brochure or manual.)

The C-25 wing keel draws just a couple of inches more than the fully raised swing keel, and it's shallower than the C-250 wing. So the C-25 wing is about the same on the trailer as the swing. The C-250 Water Ballast model is both a lighter boat and leaves its ballast on the launching ramp, making it a couple of thousand pounds lighter than the C-25 Swing Keel on the trailer. However, add at least a ton to the specs for trailering weights for each boat--for the trailer and normal stuff on board.

The C-250, especially the WB model, feels more tender than the C-25 due to less ballast, higher in the hull. A recurring topic on the C-250 WB is the rudder, of which there have been several (and now a third-party option). You can use the Search function to find these discussions. We have lots of happy water ballast owners here--I'm sure some will chime in.

If you can find a 1989-90 C-25 Wing, you should look at it. I consider it one of the nicest 25' cruisers ever built.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 07/01/2009 19:44:47

NautiC25
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Response Posted - 07/02/2009 : 05:52:32

Here's my 89 C25 wing keel on the trailer. It is probably 1-2 inches higher than a swing. It's definately worth getting for the no maintenance and lower/ even floor.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2009 : 07:12:03

BTW, many C-250 owners might not be following the C-25 Forum. You should post questions about that boat on the C-250 forum (or General, if you're asking about comparisons, to get answers from both sides).

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
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Response Posted - 07/02/2009 : 07:17:16

What Dave said - post questions about the C250 on that forum. The 250 WB is much easier to trailer due to its lighter weight and given your distance from the San Juans, etc would be a better match for your vehicle. On the trailer my C250 Wing weighs in at over 7,000lbs and C25s are similar.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 07/02/2009 07:34:59

Dave5041
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Response Posted - 07/02/2009 : 09:56:50

Most who have weighed the C-25 come in at low six thousands (I was about 6200 or 6300, I don't remember for sure) to low seven thousands, depending on what's onboard and the trailer brand and material and off loading into the tow vehicle doesn't help. It's a big package, but it's aerodynamic and tows so easily that you must be careful to remember that stopping and changing direction are the real issues. I like my swinger for easy launching and recovery and slightly better pointing, but it does require annual inspection and bi-annual maintainance. A nearly maintainance free wing fits some people better, and a flat floor would definately be nice.

Edited by - on

oregonworld
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Response Posted - 07/02/2009 : 11:13:44

Thanks for the photos. There aren't a lot of boats out here so seeing the minimal difference in wing / swing on trailer is awesome. I was thinking that it was a couple feet higher.

I guess my main considerations are 1) can I afford a 250 WB and will a newer boat have less initial costs in the repair, update, modify area 2) Do I need a bigger vehicle to tow either of the C-25's.

I can get access to a 2000 GMC Yukon XL that has a 7000 lb. trailer rating. (my dad's) however, the manual says something like needing a sway control system? Any ideas on what that is?

Thanks,

jared

Edited by - on

aeckhart
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Response Posted - 07/02/2009 : 12:33:27

My 88 wing is the same as the 89 except the main hatch setup is much better on the 89. There have been many, many discussions posted in the archives over the years on this subject. I believe someone here actually compiled a list of the differences in each model year.

I don't think you'll need an anti-sway system for trailering. the dual axle trailer makes it a breeze to haul the boat. I used a chev 1500 1/2 ton 4x4 for many years for short hauls to the ramp with no problems.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
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Response Posted - 07/02/2009 : 13:00:07

It really depends on how far and how fast you tow. We tow hundreds of miles on the highway (I-5) with a 1999 GMC Yukon with a similar rating although the XL has the advantage of a longer wheelbase. We use an Equalizer hitch that provides sway control and equalization. I would not travel without it. When, not if, that trailer starts moving side-to-side back there it will move the rear end of your Yukon too. Very scary at highway speeds. A C25 or C250 Wing will exceed the tow capacity of the Yukon so you need all the help you can get. My next vehicle will be a 3/4 ton quad-cab pickup with extended wheelbase. It is one thing to do a short haul and quite another to go at highway speeds in traffic.

Edited by - on

DaveR
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Response Posted - 07/02/2009 : 14:21:47

But Jared,
This little deal here, THIS forum, these people, are why you want to buy one of the various models of the Catalina 25/250 or Capri. Aren't they awesome? You got a question? They got an answer!

Edited by - on

GaryB
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Response Posted - 07/03/2009 : 15:25:26

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by NautiC25
 Here's my 89 C25 wing keel on the trailer. It is probably 1-2 inches higher than a swing. It's definately worth getting for the no maintenance and lower/ even floor.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Any chance you have more pictures of your trailer setup that you could email me? I'm intrigued by the hydraulic rams.

Edited by - GaryB on 07/03/2009 15:27:05

oregonworld
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Response Posted - 07/03/2009 : 16:00:44

I am impressed with all your great feedback and acknowledge that the Catalina community is sounding pretty cool. It is just making my anticipation of getting the right boat all that much sweater.

Thanks,

jared

Edited by - on

KiteKraemer
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Response Posted - 07/06/2009 : 11:56:47

Hello my oregon friend. I would reccommend a c-25 any day over a 250, and the older the better. The older Catalinas had a really nice balance of wood and glass. the newer ones look more like a milk-jug inside aka; macgregor (esp. the 250) and they also cost way WAY more. you should be able to p/u a C-25 in great shape for as little as $7500; possibly with a trailer. I know of a few that just went up on Craigslist in the bay area. keep your eyes peeled. Welcome!

Edited by - on

NautiC25
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Response Posted - 07/07/2009 : 05:30:45

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by GaryB
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by NautiC25
 Here's my 89 C25 wing keel on the trailer. It is probably 1-2 inches higher than a swing. It's definately worth getting for the no maintenance and lower/ even floor.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Any chance you have more pictures of your trailer setup that you could email me? I'm intrigued by the hydraulic rams.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I only have 1 or 2 more, but it's not my trailer. That's the boat hauler I used to get it from Jackson MS to central TX. I've been meaning to put his name up here cause he's the cheapest by FAR and did a great job. No problems whatsoever. I called all the ones recommended on sailingtexas and they were high in price.
(hope this is legal to post)
http://www.smithsboatsalvage.com/index.html
If anyone needs a transport, give him a call for a quote. Like I said, he was by far the cheapest.

He also says he has Catalina 25 parts, among others. So if you need parts for anything, give him a call.

Edited by - NautiC25 on 07/07/2009 05:33:41

oregonworld
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Response Posted - 07/07/2009 : 09:05:16

Sounds like good advice. I'm just worried about having to buy a big truck to really haul it around. I'm contemplating whether the lighter, more expensive boat will save me money in not having to buy, insure and drive a 3/4 ton truck that I probably wouldn't drive except when trailering the boat to some cool place once a year.

Jared

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by KiteKraemer
 Hello my oregon friend. I would reccommend a c-25 any day over a 250, and the older the better. The older Catalinas had a really nice balance of wood and glass. the newer ones look more like a milk-jug inside aka; macgregor (esp. the 250) and they also cost way WAY more. you should be able to p/u a C-25 in great shape for as little as $7500; possibly with a trailer. I know of a few that just went up on Craigslist in the bay area. keep your eyes peeled. Welcome!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Edited by - on

GaryB
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Response Posted - 07/07/2009 : 10:34:36

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by oregonworld
 Sounds like good advice. I'm just worried about having to buy a big truck to really haul it around. I'm contemplating whether the lighter, more expensive boat will save me money in not having to buy, insure and drive a 3/4 ton truck that I probably wouldn't drive except when trailering the boat to some cool place once a year.

Jared

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by KiteKraemer
 Hello my oregon friend. I would reccommend a c-25 any day over a 250, and the older the better. The older Catalinas had a really nice balance of wood and glass. the newer ones look more like a milk-jug inside aka; macgregor (esp. the 250) and they also cost way WAY more. you should be able to p/u a C-25 in great shape for as little as $7500; possibly with a trailer. I know of a few that just went up on Craigslist in the bay area. keep your eyes peeled. Welcome!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Several people on this forum have mentioned renting a U-Haul or similar type truck for moving their boat a couple of times per year. You might look into that as an option if you're only going to move it once a year. A weeks rental would still be cheaper than buying/owning a truck you don't really need.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2009 : 13:58:19

The C-250 WB is eminently more trailerable than any C-25, due to weight--a key reason the C-25 went away. However, be aware that the C-250 WB has 9" less headroom below than the C-250 WK, and even less compared to the various C-25s, although none of those accommodates a six-footer without stooping (except under the raised pop-top). Every boat's a compromise.

Edited by - on

islander
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Response Posted - 07/07/2009 : 15:41:58

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">This little deal here, THIS forum, these people, are why you want to buy one of the various models of the Catalina 25/250 or Capri. Aren't they awesome? You got a question? They got an answer!<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> Do I feel a group hug coming ?

Edited by - on

PCP777
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Response Posted - 07/08/2009 : 08:57:10

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 Welcome Jared! That guide, while helpful, has some misstatements... For example, C-25s were built with outboard brackets on the port side up until the cockpit fuel locker was added (1982)--they're not evidence of owners' "goofs."
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You have no idea how relieved I am to read this, I've been kind of freaking out ever since I read that guide.

Tonight I race mine for the first time.

Oregonworld,
I've seen plenty of C-25's here in the Texas area for about 5K to 7K with and without trailer. Mine was priced at 7K and I bought it for 6K, and came with many after market rigging extras (Adjustable back stay,traveler on cabin house, spin set up etc.) and was very well taken care of. I love all the wood and the homey feel down below. In fact, my family uses it like a summer home. I also think getting the right layout down below is important. We have the L shaped dining area, which I much prefer over the standard drop down table. I leave it in the lowered position with the cushion on which makes it like a double bed but you can still get around it easily while under sail. Other guys in my marina who have C-25's really like that as well. . The C-250's are more race oriented day sailing boats. So if you plan on just day sailing and racing and don't mind a more spartan down below, I'd probably go with the C 250. If you like cruising and might spend the night down below, I'd go with an older C-25 with the L shaped dining area. I spent the entire 4th of July weekend, from Thursday to Sunday on my boat. It's nice to have a crash spot when they day is done.

let us know how your search goes.

Edited by - on

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