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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

C25 racing with an asym

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JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/06/2009 : 11:46:32

We were out yesterday in winds I measured at 12 to 15 knots and seas 2 - 4 feet with sometimes 6 footers rolling through. We were practicing for the Crew of 2 around the Coronados coming up Aug. 1.

Flying my symmetrical spinnaker was a hoot, and we practiced sets, gybes, and douses, settling on the letterbox douse and finally getting the doublehanded set and gybe right. The letterbox douse the spin comes down into the salon right through the loose foot of the main. A great douse in high winds or short handed.

Knowing that the race is usually a beam reach or even slightly higher out to the island, DDW around the island, and hard on the wind back, we then started practicing with a borrowed asym. We rigged a tackline off the anchor roller and ran it back to a winch. We rigged for gybes around the outside of the forestay. The sail was 0.75 oz and quite a bit smaller in area compared to my symmetrical spin. It also was in a chute.

The boat loved this sail! We never saw speeds below 6 and were often surfing in the 7s. We measured the range of apparant wind angles we could sail and the asym pointed about 20 degrees higher and sailed nearly as deep. I can see why modern boats have gone to the asym on a sprit. Gybing was simple and fast and could be done from the cockpit. While you could point pretty high, the sweetspot seemed to be apparant wind just forward of the beam.

I really loved sailing the asym and I have not had this much fun in a while. We sailed a total of over 20 miles doing this practice, turned around just 7 miles from the island and sailed all the way back.

What a day.

My crew, doing all the foredeck work, was exhausted!

Indiscipline 1978 FK SR #398

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JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 07/06/2009 : 12:43:41

A few weeks ago I had 2 days to beat to windward from the Magothy River down the Chesapeake Bay to the West River/Rhode River where I anchored overnight, and the next day I had a delightful sail with my asym about 20 miles on one broad reach back home.

I enjoy using my asym a lot, but I still have to be cautious not to hoist a tangled mess.

Glad you got to try an asym, too.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 07/06/2009 : 15:59:16

So would you racers abandon the symetrical spinnaker on the C25 and perhaps even build a small bowsprit? I can see lots of advantages even getting that tack out a foot.

Or is it best to carry both?

I'm talking offshore PHRF racing.

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aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 07/09/2009 : 11:02:03

I've advocated the asym with sprit for two years but have not come up with an inexpensive sprit or design to fabricate. The problem for our boats is the narrow slot between the stem and bow rail.

Another device I am interested in is a furler for the asym. Several companys make them but at a big price. Such a furler would allow you to do everything from the cockpit. A definate plus for cruising and racing.

Edited by - aeckhart on 07/09/2009 11:03:45

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 07/10/2009 : 09:38:23

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JimB517
 So would you racers abandon the symetrical spinnaker on the C25 and perhaps even build a small bowsprit? I can see lots of advantages even getting that tack out a foot.

Or is it best to carry both?

I'm talking offshore PHRF racing.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I haven't raced with an assym, and haven't seen an assym used very often by serious racers. I think the reason is primarily because you can reach fairly well with a symmetrical spinnaker, and the symm. has more sail area than an assym., so for every point of sail from about a beam reach to a run, the symm. is a more powerful sail. If you want to reach still higher, you can do so with an assym, but then you can also do so with a genoa. I suspect there is a point of sail somewhere between a beam reach and a close reach where the assym is more powerful than the genoa, but I suspect the range of points of sail in which that is true is fairly narrow. As you point higher, the assym. will become less beneficial, and the genoa will become more so. What that means is, you might benefit by using an assym. within that range, but it's a narrow range, which means you might have to change sails from the assym. to the genoa, if your course relative to the wind direction changes a little bit. Most racers in most shorter distance races wouldn't be willing to change sails for such a small gain. In longer distance races, you might consider it worthwhile to carry both the assym. and the symm.

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aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 07/14/2009 : 11:38:47

The asym is not a downwind sail unless you have it extended out in front of the boat a few feet with a sprit. With a sprit the sail is not blanketed by the main and can therfore sail a more direct downwind course. Otherwise it is an off-wind sail which can be used from a broad reach to a beam reach.....that is, if you are using a tack line to adjust the tack of the sail. The closer to a beam reach the boat is sailed, the lower to the stem the tack must be adjusted. It is then sailed more like a code zero or a "blooper".

The sprit is the key but, I'll wager I can beat any other comparable C25 sailing downwind with a symmetric spinnaker, while I'm off wind with my asymetric spinnaker.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 07/14/2009 : 13:01:10

I am mainly doing long distance offshore coastal races. In these races it seems I am often watching and waiting for hours for the wind to go aft the beam so I can go up with my symmetrical spinnaker. Once up, the apparent wind moves forward, of course. So Cal has light winds and rarely if ever do I find myself sailing DDW. In winds of 5 to 10 knots even with the spin you are usually gybing back and forth downwind trying to keep some pressure on the sails.

The asym had a wide range of useful wind angles, from a broad reach to a close reach, with a sweet spot with the wind just forward of the beam. Now I had strong winds the day I tested. Winds were 12 to 15. I could point 20 degrees higher with the asym than with the sym. Gybing was very simple.

You can see why modern, sprit, sportboats don't even carry a sym spin. DDW is a very slow point of sail for them. It's a masthead asym, fractionals asym, Code 0, Code nnn, or 100% genoa.

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