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General Sailing Forum

Sailing to windward

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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4031 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/06/2009 : 14:21:47

Sat. morning we sailed down to Oyster Bay to enjoy the fireworks and stay over night. This was a downwind trip so I just used the 135 Genoa and clipped along at 5 knots, No mainsail needed for it was a strong wind. We stayed overnight and enjoyed the show. Sunday morning the wind had calmed a bit but was still out of the W/NW so this meant an upwind sail to go west. I did 2 long tacks across the Sound say around 8-10 miles each leg to get back home but my question is would it be faster sailing upwind to do multiple tacks with shorter legs or what I did with the long legs and less tacks???

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 07/06/2009 : 21:44:32

The old long tack/short tack issue. Short tacking can keep you on a shorter path if the wind shifts, long tacks involve less sail handling and consequent speed loss. If the wind direction dosn't change, the distance is the same. If I'm going some where, I tend to do shorter tacks on variable days and longer on steady days. A wind shift on a long tack can either put you in a great position or out in the boonies, but I'm lazy and rarely stay extremely close to my rhumb line.

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DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2009 : 05:40:50

There are so many variables that play in to the situation. I might do shorter tacks (to keep close to the lee shore if the wind was really kicking up the bay away from shore. A lot of boat traffic? Maybe a longer tack gets you away from the congestion. Of course if you tack to much you're increasing your work load HUGE. I think in most situations I'm going to be as lazy as possible and go for the longer runs.

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Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2009 : 08:42:50

Nothing worthwhile to contribute, but I completely envy your dilemma. I sail on a 1 mile by 5 mile reservoir. All my tacks are short.

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Peregrine
Admiral

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830 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2009 : 10:13:51

You might want to check your Eldridge

for the tides. The Sound typically has stronger flows near the shore and less in the center. Work your tacks to take advantage of the water flow, most likely you'll do more tacks near the shore and can get a favorable long tack in the center.
Too bad the Dolans didn't do their usual fireworks display in Oyster Bay it was missed.
I heard there were problems with the permits this year.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2009 : 10:43:03

In a race it is wise to take the short tacks, stay in the favorable current (or minimize time in adverse current), and tack on every header. It is rarely wise to take a long "flyer" way outside one way or the other. Our boats tack fast and come up to speed quickly.

Race tactics are the same for getting somewhere quickly when you are not racing.

Know your laylines and usually tack before them unless you are getting close to the mark.

Only take the long tack if you feel strongly there is better wind on one side or the other or you are sure there is going to be a long term favorable shift. The advice is "sail towards the new wind".

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windsong
Captain

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USA
318 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2009 : 10:57:28

I agree with Jim. All things being equal, it doesn't matter, but things never are equal. Multiple tacks keep you close to your course. Even if you were confident about an impending wind shift, you can tack over when you feel the wind clocking around. If there were a current - that would be the most common exception I can think of to the "short tack" rule. Of course, you may have to put down your beer more this way...
And on another note, I'm jealous. What a nice way to spend your Fourth of July.

Edited by - windsong on 07/07/2009 11:15:40

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5909 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2009 : 11:57:08

Every time you tack a boat, you lose speed and distance and time, and, once it's lost, you can't get it back. Therefore, you should only tack when there's a good reason to tack. You might tack to get clear air, or tack to stay in stronger winds, or tack to stay in (or out of) a strong current, or tack to cover an opponent. On the Chesapeake, we often "short-tack" to stay along the western shore, where we are likely to find smoother seas. If a strong tide is running behind you, you'll want to tack into deeper water, where the current will be stronger. If the tide is against you, then you'll want to tack towards shallower water, where the current will be much less. There's no inherent benefit to long or short tacks per se. Other conditions will dictate whether tacking will be beneficial.

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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4031 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2009 : 14:44:18

Thanks for all the replies, Very helpful. We had all day to get back and Sunday was a picture perfect day anyhow. Yes John, we went to Oyster Bay specifically for the Dolen's display. We have gone in previous years and we were wondering what happened. Anyhow the locals in Bayville do a nice job and we could still see Huntington's show over Center Island. For anybody cruising through Long Island Sound, Don't pass up a stay in Oyster Bay A very pretty Harbor and very boat friendly.

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redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2009 : 15:41:42

Captain Milby has it exactly correct. Currents, chop, whatever does matter. This is why sailing is more brain intensive than say driving a car around a track 500 times - no offense NASCAR people!

Your speed over ground is all that really matters and often sailing at even 35 plus degrees off course will actually deliver you there faster at 6.5 knots say, compared with 3 knots on a short tack or downwind sans spin. This principle seems counterproductive at first, and may not be useful at all on short courses, but for cruising and actually making landfall when appropriate, I have learned to sail first and correct course later.

sten

Edited by - redviking on 07/07/2009 15:47:37

Peregrine
Admiral

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830 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2009 : 17:52:46

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by islander
 Thanks for all the replies, Very helpful. We had all day to get back and Sunday was a picture perfect day anyhow. Yes John, we went to Oyster Bay specifically for the Dolen's display. We have gone in previous years and we were wondering what happened. Anyhow the locals in Bayville do a nice job and we could still see Huntington's show over Center Island. For anybody cruising through Long Island Sound, Don't pass up a stay in Oyster Bay A very pretty Harbor and very boat friendly.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Next time your coming to the bay e-mail a heads up and come by and say "Hi".
That goes for anyone coming to Oyster Bay.

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DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 07/08/2009 : 13:13:25

Sten, you may know sailing but you certainly don't know car racing. There's unbelievable intelligence at work to make these cars do what they do, you don't just "drive a car around a track 500 times."

Edited by - DaveR on 07/08/2009 13:15:24

windsong
Captain

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USA
318 Posts

Response Posted - 07/08/2009 : 13:40:37

Oh, boy! As a Carolina resident, I was wondering how long it would take for the NASCAR fans to weigh in.

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redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 07/08/2009 : 14:01:05

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by DaveR
 Sten, you may know sailing but you certainly don't know car racing. There's unbelievable intelligence at work to make these cars do what they do, you don't just "drive a car around a track 500 times."
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You are right of course, but there is no navigation involved, nobody can run aground, and uh... no charts... sorry, but it still seems simpler... Shields up!

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aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 07/09/2009 : 10:55:07

Short tack does not necessarily mean "pinching" which reduces speed. Sail short tacks at your fastest sailing angle, which takes advantage of speed and shorter distance.

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