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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

single-handed sailing

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jnhiggins
Deckhand

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USA
7 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/06/2009 : 17:30:01

Hi all. This is my first post, although I've read the form for years. I have WB hull #167, which I've sailed on Lake Erie for the past 10 years. Mostly, I'm alone in the boat. I keep a 4-foot length of pvc pipe handy when I sail; I couldn't do without it. When I need to go forward to handle the jib sheet, I slip the pvc over the tiller and hold this extension between my legs while I change the tack. Steering sometimes is dicey, especially in heavier weather, but it works well enough. This, of course, seems crude. Does anyone have a suggestion for a better system, short of relocating the jam cleats and winches?

James V. Higgins

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 07/06/2009 : 18:09:31

James, the cam cleats can be removed and replaced with swivel cam cleats with capture. I had mine rigged this way for a few years and it worked well up to a breeze and then a couple of turns around the winch does it. Coming across, simply bring the sheet in prior to loading the jib and its easy.

The sheets are easy to handle even behind a wheel.

I'm suggesting these for a 110 headsail only.

Edited by - on

jnhiggins
Deckhand

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USA
7 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2009 : 05:01:56

Thanks! I'll try that.

Edited by - on

bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2009 : 07:44:58

I did the same as Arlyn a few years back, if you lengthen the line controlling the jib sheet you can set far enough back on the settee
or stand without a tiller extension. The winches on the cabin top really have become secondary with the swivel cam cleats....

Edited by - on

essen48183
Navigator

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USA
143 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2009 : 08:38:00

I put those extreme angle fairleads

http://mauriprosailing.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD& Product_Code=HAR375& Category_Code=ODLIGHT

on the angled cleats coming off the cabintop winches. $13 a piece. I route the jib sheets around the mainsheet so that I will have control of it as the mainsheet comes across. One or two wraps around the winch are always done because It is just one screw going into fiberglass and the other going into starboard on the cleat. Works well up to about 20 knots of breeze. Above that there are times when I need a helper or else I have to lock the wheel and go up there. With a tiller I think I'd be close enough to make this work in all circumstances.

Edited by - on

windsong
Captain

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USA
318 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2009 : 10:03:08

Essen,
Can you give a little more description of your rig and how you use it to sail alone? I'm not quite following how you "route the jib sheets around the mainsheet." I have a wheel, too, and I single-hand a lot, but I'm relying on the autopilot. I go forward of the wheel and reach over the pedestal guard and hit "tack." It works, but it puts me in the path of the boom. I'd rather stay aft of the boom.
Also, I don't have "angled cleats coming off the cabintop winches." Is this a midship cleat for docking, or something else?
Anyway, I'd love a bit more explanation. I'm experimenting with how to sail alone (it's a new boat), and I still not satisfied with how I'm doing it.

Edited by - on

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 07/08/2009 : 13:43:20

Those swivel cleats are great. But not cheap!! (not even the cheap ones)

Edited by - on

jnhiggins
Deckhand

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USA
7 Posts

Response Posted - 07/08/2009 : 17:56:41

Does West Marine have the swivel cam cleats?

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 07/08/2009 : 18:22:34

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by jnhiggins
 Does West Marine have the swivel cam cleats?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I use these for my furler line. They also have some Ronstans for about $125.

[url="http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/producte/10001/-1/10001/14201/377%20710/0/swivel%20cam/Primary%20Search/mode%20matchallpartial/0/0?N=377%20710&Ne=0&Ntt=swivel%20cam&Ntk=Primary%20Search&Ntx=mode%20matchallpartial&Nao=0&Ns=0&keyword=swivel%20cam&isLTokenURL=true&storeNum=2&subdeptNum=332&classNum=12351"]Ronstan swivel cam cleat[/url]
[url="http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/producte/10001/-1/10001/82039/377%20710/0/swivel%20cam/Primary%20Search/mode%20matchallpartial/0/0?N=377%20710&Ne=0&Ntt=swivel%20cam&Ntk=Primary%20Search&Ntx=mode%20matchallpartial&Nao=0&Ns=0&keyword=swivel%20cam&isLTokenURL=true&storeNum=2&subdeptNum=332&classNum=12351"]Ronstan Ultimate Swivel Cam Cleat[/url]

Edited by - Nautiduck on 07/08/2009 18:26:42

AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Response Posted - 07/09/2009 : 13:02:55

James, click Search and write in "self tacking". It'll take you to my posts and pics of my self tacking setup for single handing. Or just click this URL:
http://www.catalina-capri-25s.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=19673&SearchTerms=self,tacking

Edited by - on

jbkayaker
Captain

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USA
299 Posts

Response Posted - 07/13/2009 : 18:58:52

I would like to have a self tacking genoa but I do not want a pulley block slapping across my mast, shrouds, and lifelines. So can the system be turned around so the rope moves and there is no moving block anywhere ?

Alternative 1: Could ropes attached to the boom be arranged to pull in and let out the genoa sheets. In other words could ropes be used to make the genoa move in tandem with the mainsail during a tack. Differences in travel distances complicate the problem.

Alternative 2: Could the sheets (ropes) that normally are winched in (one at a time) to set the genoa be replaced by a loop of rope going from the genoa clew thru both of the normal jib track blocks and back to the clew. One additional stationary block on the mast (just below the boom) could be used to keep the loop rope clear of the deck between the jib blocks.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 07/24/2009 : 14:23:57

If going the swivel cam cleat route, I'd not be too concerned about the strength of the mounting. They take three screws and because the mounting plate sits surface level, the screws don't suffer much in the way of force trying to bend them over... almost all the force is strictly sheer force.

I used mine several years until going to coaming winches and had no problems. After removing them, I put the old cam cleats back in the original screw holes. If I remember correctly, the original cam mounting holes served two of the three holes needed for the swivels.

btw, after removing the swivels I remounted them near the cabin breakover to the cockpit using screws rather than bolts where they are used to handle twing lines and I've not had any issues with them loosening.

btw #2, a cyber cigar to the first who knows what a twing is.

Edited by - on

bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 07/27/2009 : 10:28:23

James, I bought two of those swivel cam cleats several years ago from WM and still use them. They do allow you to move from one settee to the other and the lines follow you across. Mine are mounted to the inboard and aft of the winches.

Edited by - on

mhartong
Navigator

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USA
152 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2009 : 14:46:59

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Arlyn Stewart ...btw #2, a cyber cigar to the first who knows what a twing is.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">"TWING"- framework for tangible and multitouch interface based applications" created at the University of Augsburg in 2007. TWING provides an interface to a tracking system and a visualization component built on GDI+ and completely written in C# for Xenakis. Xenakis is a multi-user instrument to stochastically create music with a tangible interface. You can control the played instruments, their rhythmic and notes by moving physical objects on a luminous table surface. TWING is open source and available for download under the GNU LESSER GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE Version 3.

Edited by - mhartong on 08/01/2009 14:48:48

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2009 : 20:35:55

No cigar for you!

A twing is a line attached to the sheets of a spinnaker. It is used to adjust the sheeting angle of the spinnaker.

Edited by - on

essen48183
Navigator

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USA
143 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2009 : 17:57:14

Sorry windsong, I turned off the email notifications from the forum a while back. My $30 system didn't work when the wind really was blowing, so I added coaming winches lewmar 7's and moved the previously mentioned extreme angle fairleads on there. It works great in all conditions. If I have a guest on board they can control the jibs from infront of the wheel, don't have to go to the low side to release. cost about another $300, but now the whole boat is easily controlled from behind the wheel and from the high coaming if I want.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2009 : 19:20:13

Essen, what is a great deal for $300 but how did you do so cheap? Do you have any pics of the finished job.
Steve A
PS nice link to photos, btw.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 11/04/2009 : 06:39:42

Randy gets the cigar... but I use the twing concept in slightly a different way.

The '95-'96 model years didn't have long enough jib sheet tracks with inadequate track aft. With the car fully back, the sheeting angle still wasn't right and consequently the '97 model saw longer tracks installed.

After upgrading to coaming winches, it occurred to me that there was a way to simulate longer tracks. It is done with a twing, though at the time I didn't know what a twing was. It is a block attached to a line much like a barber hauler but used differently. Where a barber hauler is used on a jib sheet line to redirect the jib sheet laterally, (most often pulling it inboard) a twing is used to direct the sheet vertically as a jib car does.

It works like this. The jib car is run fully forward and with the twing block on the jib sheet the twing line is then run through the jib car and both the sheet and the twing line run aft for control. When a jib sheet car position is desired to be aft, the twing line can be eased to allow the twing block to float high and thus direct the jib sheet well aft and visa a forward block position is simulated by bringing the twing block close to the deck.

In a sense, using a twing on the jib sheet simulates an adjustable jib car track. At first, I was concerned that the lazy sheet with the twing block falling to the deck would foul... but that has never been the case (at least so far).

Keep in mind, that a twing line will not work with cabin top winching of the jib sheets... its use was opened up after jib sheets were redirected to coaming winches.

The twing lines are secured in swivel cam cleats mounted at the cabin breakover making for very easy adjustment of jib sheeting angle.

Two pictures show them in operation.

Edited by - on

essen48183
Navigator

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USA
143 Posts

Response Posted - 11/04/2009 : 15:53:00

Starboard one almost off the picture to give an idea of placement

closeup of port coaming winch

what I don't have a closeup picture of are the spinlock stanchion fairleads near the upper and lower attachment point of the handrail-ish stanchions. you can sort of see it here. I think the upper ones could be lowered quite a bit, this taken the first week after the install with a cell phone. On the upper ones instead of the rope going through it, there are single blocks hanging from it that the rope goes through. Arlyns spring mounted one above would be a better candidate for the lower one instead of the fairlead I used. Also shown on this picture is the unforeseen benefit of this setup. you can route the main halyard through the wide jib lead to the port cabintop winch and only go forward for dousing the main once this setup is in place... costs nothing to rout halyards back in that manner with the early models... also prevents overwrap that happened prior to routing them that way.

and a pic taken the same day of the whole cockpit

a search for lewmar single speed winches on ebay will yield many inexpensive results.

I think I paid $90 for the pair of winches, not afraid to buy used on ebay because there is not much to go wrong with them... they get gummed up and I guess people with money just buy new ones and sell the ones when the pawls stop engaging. It required 2 hours of cleaning and relubing to get them working again.
maybe $50 for the cam cleats, $20 for the risers, $20 for the SS hardware to mount, $20 for the epoxy and lifecaulk, I already had the extreme angle fairleads, but they're like $12 a piece. the fairleads cost a bit and I had the blocks laying around in the boat and didn't have a use for them anywhere else. So probably closer to $200 and you are stylin if you use used but pretty winches.

Edited by - essen48183 on 11/04/2009 16:10:57

ruachwrights
Captain

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USA
258 Posts

Response Posted - 11/12/2009 : 12:02:31

Essen,
Nice photos. Great work of getting things all squared away. I myself have come up with a slightly different single- handed solution for my autohealmless, non-locking wheel. Helps keep crew in line too![img]http://gallery.me.com/ruachwrights/100016/03A0156/web.jpg?ver=12580511520001/img]

Edited by - on

ruachwrights
Captain

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USA
258 Posts

Response Posted - 11/12/2009 : 12:05:12

Sorry, was trying to post a picture of a heavy duty version of one of those reacher grabbers used by people confined to wheel chairs or walkers.

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John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 11/12/2009 : 12:23:02

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