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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Towing/launching a C25 with Sequoia

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Harry Cowgill
Deckhand

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USA
13 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/12/2009 : 12:03:35

Does anyone launch/retrieve their C25 with a Toyota Sequoia (not a 4WD) or any SUV similar with a tow rating of 6500#'s? This would be for a "Wing or Swing" model. I won't be towing that far but most interested if I'll be able to pull it out without problems. Most often would be at out harbor with a good ramp at the right tide, and may go to other harbors from time to time with not so nice ramps.
I'm ready to look for a nice 25 but If It's too big then I may have to go smaller!!
Thanks for any advice!!
Harry

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2009 : 12:19:36

My GMC Yukon is rated for 6500 lbs and I consider it really barely adequate for distance highway towing. I would not recommend it to someone. A 3/4 ton 4WD pickup is really the right choice for these boats. A loaded C25 or 250, not counting the water ballast 250, weighs in at well over 7,000lbs. Plus your wheelbase, like my Yukon, is not that long and wheelbase is another important factor. If you use the Sequoia I would recommend an equalizer hitch to help spread the load and reduce sway.

For short distances, at lower speeds, you can get by. As far as ramps go it really depends. If the ramp is steep or slick you may be stuck without 4WD.

Edited by - on

Harry Cowgill
Deckhand

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USA
13 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2009 : 12:43:50

Thanks for the advice..but I won't be towing that often or that far. It will be at the yacht club with the mast stepped most of the time and in a slip part of the summer. When hurricanes come, it comes home.
Thanks..
Harry

BTW..Why are you not out sailing??? I have an excuse...no boat!

Edited by - Harry Cowgill on 07/12/2009 12:50:31

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2009 : 13:31:27

Harry, I agree with Randy, your Sequoia is just adequate for towing a C-25. And with only two wheel drive, I'd be hesitant to try to recover with it, launching should be no problem since gravity's on your side.

We tow with an F-250 4x4 with a 7.3 liter diesel, but if Toyota made a big diesel, I'd have bought one of those instead.

<soapbox>
My Ford is a piece of crap compared to any Toyota I've owned (and it's a Lariat), but they simply don't make a truck / SUV that's big enough to tow our C-250 with a good safety factor. Given the choice, I wouldn't buy an American made truck, but there's really very little choice. My Toyota 4x4 is the only truck I've owned that didn't start falling apart at 60k miles or so. It was pushing 200k when I sold it (to buy the Ford) and the only major work I'd ever had done was a clutch replacement at about 140k, and the factory recall for the head gasket which they paid for, and gave me a brand new rental car to drive for the week it took to get parts, all outside of the warranty. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another Toyota.
</soapbox>

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2009 : 16:50:31

Lack of citizen support for our industries, poor business decisions by our industry leaders, and idiotic self-centered unions, are all reasons why we have lost so many manufacturing jobs in the past few years, especially since NAFTA was passed. Also, mark a lot of it up to old fashioned greed! We are all now paying the price.
We're on our fifth Dodge/Chrylser minivan. We had transmission issues with 2 of them, but I decided to give them one last try. This last one, a 2002 dodge Grand Caravan Sport, has been great, almost 142K miles on the odometer with no serious issues, bought at Carmax! We also have a 2004 Ford Focus, another great car, very happy with it, 92K on the odometer; bought it after our anniversary trip to England in 2006 putting 1100 miles on a rental Focus there. Third vehicle is the C22 hauler, a 2000 Isuzu Trooper. That's probably the only one of the 3 that I would not buy again if I could do it over. Should have bought a Tahoe or Yukon. My daughter ran the engine dry at 56K miles on a trip to her former college in northern Illinois. With a replacement engine, we now have 87K miles on it, but with the high gas prices, we rarely drive it unless I'm hauling the C22 somewhere. (Of course, I should have checked the oil before letting her go north with it, and told her to check the oil again before starting home - didn't do either and it cost me $7K).

Edited by - on

Happy D
Admiral

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921 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2009 : 18:21:47

I get real burned up when someone trashes America. We aren’t perfect I'll admit, but I cannot flush America down the toilet for a few dollars. Our kids are really going to need a job. I love the kid that can't find a job driving a Honda car.
I was at the Honda plant in Alabama. They pay $9.50 / hr to load cars on the railroad cars for shipping. You can’t feed yourself on $9.50/hr. We pay high school interns more than that.
Americans need to buy American made stuff and the Canadians need to buy Canadian made stuff. This one world economy is a load of crap. If you believe it's ok to buy foreign stuff, go live in that country. Support them. There is no place even close to America and if we keep going the way we are, we will be third world.
We actually teach our children it’s good to buy foreign made stuff. Even high school kids see Dad out of work and wonder, what am I gonna do? Learn to speak Chinese.
The Japanese are fiercely loyal to Japan. They buy only Japanese made products. If it isn’t a good product they buy a different Japanese product, but they will NOT buy American products.
Like Jesus said, “ Man cannot serve two Gods.” You either worship money or God. In America we worship money and we don’t care whose back we stand on to get it.

Edited by - on

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2009 : 19:44:48

You might do a archive search on "tow rope launch." It gives you a way to use a barley adequate vehicle to launch and recover your boat without putting your wheels on wet pavement.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2009 : 19:49:23

The most common problem in recovery is wheel spin on slick ramps, and that can usually be handled with a little sand for the rear tires unless the ramp is in poor shape. 4WD, although nice, is not usually required since the front end is lightly loaded due to the weight on the hitch and the incline - the rears do the majority of the work regardless of whether it is 4WD or RWD. Some kind of limited slip differential lies in the extremely desirable to essential range. This, in my mind, is the bottom end package for occasional, limited, modest speed towing and launch/recovery. You might want to have a backup vehicle available at your first attempt. I do a round trip to Lake Erie (about 150 miles each way) and another to Florida (about 850) every year with a Grand Cherokee (6800 lb and has electronic sway control) at 60 - 62 mph and consider it a perfectly satisfactory setup. I took it up to 70 mph once to check stability; I have been buffeted by 40 mph crosswinds, I have stopped very hard in a controlled situation and I am comfortable with my two tows at my self imposed speed limit. A long wheelbase diesel truck makes more sense if you tow a lot, but but you better have other uses for the truck or a lot of money to burn if you only tow occasionally. Others have different opinions and situations.
edit:
Frog's suggestion appeared while I was writing this and it is excellent advice.

Edited by - Dave5041 on 07/12/2009 19:51:46

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 07/13/2009 : 06:35:11

I have also heard advice to avoid awd vehicles with a transverse mount engine as these tend to favour loading of the front tires more than the rears. Anyone else heard this?

We Used our GMC Safari to move the boat from the house to the Marina. It is rated at 5500 LBS. The trip was 8 miles. Never again. Not enough power to get going, not enough brakes to stop in a hurry.

If your investment is for a once-a-year trip, consider a rental. If it for regular launches and retrievals with no highway miles, I know of guys who have picked up old Army surplus diesel pickups as yard trucks. If it is going to travel on a public road where you could hurt anyone other than yourself, invest in a proper truck for the job.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 07/13/2009 : 08:02:27

The usual, more forward mounting of a transverse engine might shift the weight distribution slightly more forward. That might have a modest impact on rear wheel traction and driving stability in an otherwise unloaded pickup since they have a massive front end bias to begin with, but AWD should offset that enough so that it isn't very significant on a ramp. On the road, a heavy tow distorts vehicle dynamics so much in anything but steady speed, straight line driving or modest acceleration that I doubt that it would be noticable except in really difficult situation. Incidently, Toyota had some very significant problems with its AWD, automatic transmission trucks, but not the 4X4.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 07/13/2009 : 15:10:32

Doesn't strap launching mitigate the problem of making the rear end too heavy and lightening the front end? I would think that would help a 4x4 vehicle, at least for the pull-out.

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 07/13/2009 : 16:57:34

Heavy in the rear is not a problem (Not in trucks anyway).

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 07/13/2009 : 20:04:35

A too-heavy load on the hitch tends to make the front end lighter than normal causing the front wheels to lose traction, made worse by the slope of a launch ramp. The problem at the front end is what I was referring to as being less of an issue with a strap haul-out. Isn't the force exerted by the trailer and boat in a strap haul-out more lateral than vertical?

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 07/14/2009 : 06:35:22

4WD will distribute torque front and rear and the end with the better traction (usually the rear on a ramp) will transmit greater torque to the pavement. Static tongue weight should not be high enough for the change on a ramp to matter. AWD avoids the problem of right or left wheel spin in the absence of limited slip or locking differentials in 4WD. The real advantage of line recovery it getting you off the slick stuff on the ramp, but yes, the load is more horizontal and tongue weight is reduced. Tire adhesion is a factor of friction, and it is expressed as a percentage of the vertical load. 4 tires with a load of 2000 lbs each and a coefficient of friction of 0.7 would be able to transmit 5600 of horizontal force. If the rears were loaded at 3000 lbs and the fronts at 1000 lbs each, the total for 4 tires would still be 5600 lbs.

edit:
Torque is actually distributed equally in 4WD until one end loses traction and spins, then greater torque is applied at the end with traction.

Edited by - Dave5041 on 07/14/2009 06:39:05

Harry Cowgill
Deckhand

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USA
13 Posts

Response Posted - 07/14/2009 : 10:05:14

Thanks for all the replies!!! Gives me something to think about. Fairly sure the Sequoia would not have a problem at our harbor with the right tongue ext...but other ramps..who knows! I guess a nice heavy strap/rope would be nice to have just in case.
Thanks again and I'll post what I decide..
Harry

Edited by - on

At Ease
Admiral

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672 Posts

Response Posted - 07/17/2009 : 08:53:05

This has been mentioned before...but here it is again.

You cannot determine tow rating from any publication or internet site. Those ratings are with an empty tow vehicle. The true definition of tow rating is the tow vehicle's GCWR minus the weight of the tow vehicle when loaded and ready to tow.

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