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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 07/22/2009 : 09:15:52

A C25 has a J of 10.5', and therefore a 100% jib on a C25 has an LP of 10.5', regardless of whether the jib is hanked on or fed into a foil, and regardless of whether or not the jib is high cut or a deck sweeper. However, even though the LP is the same, a 100% deck sweeping jib will have more sail area than a 100% high cut jib, or a roller furling jib, simply because, on the deck sweeper, all that area extending from the foot of the sail down to the deck is filled with sailcloth.

The reason why racers generally use a 155% for their #1 headsail, instead of a 150%, is because most racing classes and handicapping organizations impose an added handicap for any sail more than 155%. Racers use a 155 because it's the biggest sail they are allowed to have without an added handicap. A racer would be foolish to use a 150% genoa when he would be allowed to use a bigger 155% sail, and when his opponents will almost all be using bigger sails. It would be the equivalent of an auto racer using a smaller, less powerful engine while all your opponents are using bigger ones.

I think cruisers and day sailors generally order a 150 as their #1 jib primarily because most of them use roller furling, and a 150 is the biggest sail that can be used with reasonable efficiency on a roller furler. In fact, some think even a 150 is too big. For an all-purpose sail, they often prefer a smaller sail, such as a 130 or 140.

Cruisers try to limit their sail inventory to one or two sails, to cover a wide spectrum of wind speeds. Racers are more likely to use 6-8 bags of sails of various sizes and weights. Each sail will cover a specific range of the wind speed spectrum, and when the wind rises or falls outside that range, they'll change to a bigger or smaller jib. A racer's biggest headsail might be as big a 170-180%, because some believe such a big hanked on sail or a sail fed into a foil can be efficiently flown in very light air, and they believe it will be worth the added handicap time that will be imposed.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 07/22/2009 : 09:28:48

Great explanation Steve.

Also a racer's 155% will likely be of lighter material for the same sail than a cruiser's sinc ein light air they want to be able to get going and will have a slightly smaller sail in th ecabin to switch to when things reach the limits of the sail. A cruiser's sails of the same size will tend to be heavier so they can handle a wider variety of winds.

Some serious racers will have a light and a heavy sail of the same size - one for each end of the limits of what the boat can handle within the range for that sail.

Edited by - on

buzzardsolo
Deckhand

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USA
18 Posts

Response Posted - 07/22/2009 : 10:20:22

hinmo,

I know Buzzards Bay well (see username). 15-20 knots coming up the bay from SW with an opposing tide makes for quite an exciting sail. On the Quest 33 I race on, we made our way up the Bay on Sunday in 20+ knots using the #2 and full racing main. Needless to say, it was pretty wild.

If I remember correctly from your earlier post, you're over in Mattapoisett Harbor. I've sailed my Laser II off from a cottage near Ned's Point for years. It's a great place to sail. I keep my Catalina 25FK over in Padanaram.

I have a 135% on a CDI FF4. As the breeze picks up, I'll put a reef in the main first, then roll in a little of the genny if I have to. Going upwind, I don't think it's wise to furl up any more than up to 100%. Unless you have tape built into the luff, the genny will start to get a belly in it, getting less efficient and more prone to heeling.

Mostly, I sail solo (again, see username). If it's blowing 15 or higher, I'll usually just roll out the full 135% and sail upwind just fine. Tacking is tricky, because without the mainsail, the bow really falls off to the new leeward side before you regain speed and can point up. In steep chop, it gets tricky because you're temporarily broadside to the chop with little speed.

Eric Morin

Edited by - buzzardsolo on 07/22/2009 10:24:28

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 07/22/2009 : 11:59:38

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by buzzardsolo
 hinmo,

I know Buzzards Bay well (see username). 15-20 knots coming up the bay from SW with an opposing tide makes for quite an exciting sail. On the Quest 33 I race on, we made our way up the Bay on Sunday in 20+ knots using the #2 and full racing main. Needless to say, it was pretty wild.

If I remember correctly from your earlier post, you're over in Mattapoisett Harbor. I've sailed my Laser II off from a cottage near Ned's Point for years. It's a great place to sail. I keep my Catalina 25FK over in Padanaram.

I have a 135% on a CDI FF4. As the breeze picks up, I'll put a reef in the main first, then roll in a little of the genny if I have to. Going upwind, I don't think it's wise to furl up any more than up to 100%. Unless you have tape built into the luff, the genny will start to get a belly in it, getting less efficient and more prone to heeling.

Mostly, I sail solo (again, see username). If it's blowing 15 or higher, I'll usually just roll out the full 135% and sail upwind just fine. Tacking is tricky, because without the mainsail, the bow really falls off to the new leeward side before you regain speed and can point up. In steep chop, it gets tricky because you're temporarily broadside to the chop with little speed.

Eric Morin
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You guys are bringing back memories. I went to Tabor Academy and was in their 420 and laser programs.

Edited by - on

hinmo
Navigator

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USA
248 Posts

Response Posted - 07/23/2009 : 01:43:21

buzzsolo - I just ordered a furling 110. Couple reasons:
1) see story on my maiden voyage
2) trying to get the Admiral into sailing
3) age 52
4) want less strain on my Cragslist boat
5) just wanta cruise
should be here in less than a week...hurray!
Pete - also sailed 420s in the summer program at Tabor....circa 1975 (oww, that hurts!)...what the heck are you doing in Texas?

ps - anybody ever in the area, I can get you a mooring for a couple nites, Mattapoisett is a great harbor (except SE)

Edited by - hinmo on 07/23/2009 05:17:27

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 07/23/2009 : 08:46:57

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by hinmo
 buzzsolo - I just ordered a furling 110. Couple reasons:
1) see story on my maiden voyage
2) trying to get the Admiral into sailing
3) age 52
4) want less strain on my Cragslist boat
5) just wanta cruise
should be here in less than a week...hurray!
Pete - also sailed 420s in the summer program at Tabor....circa 1975 (oww, that hurts!)...what the heck are you doing in Texas?

ps - anybody ever in the area, I can get you a mooring for a couple nites, Mattapoisett is a great harbor (except SE)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

LOL, I've been down here since 1982, it was an IBM thing with my dad. I went to Tabor for Freshman and Sophomore year right before I moved to Texas.

Edited by - on

buzzardsolo
Deckhand

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USA
18 Posts

Response Posted - 07/23/2009 : 10:27:45

hinmo,

Before I purchased my 135%, I used the 110% that came with ESMERALDA. It's still plenty of horsepower for BBay. And we all know how important it is to keep the admiral happy.

I'll keep your offer in mind regarding a mooring in Mattapoisett. Our popular cruising spots are Cuttyhunk Island and Quick's Hole. Hadley's Harbor is also great to wait out the Woods Hole current or to overnight.

You're right about the SE breeze in Mattapoisett. A coworker of mine has a motor boat on the town dock, and often has to haul it out when a good breeze blows from SE.

Eric Morin
ESMERALDA

Edited by - on

knightwind
Navigator

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Canada
114 Posts

Response Posted - 07/25/2009 : 13:03:28

I often sail with the main only...usually because of the extra effort required to connect and then later fold up the fore sail.

I clip along at hull speed in 10 knot winds...but I had no idea a foresail would reduce the healing.

I wish I had the furler.

QUESTION: How do I tell what size my fore sail is? (If say the sail bags got mixed up?)

Edited by - on

hinmo
Navigator

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USA
248 Posts

Response Posted - 07/26/2009 : 04:04:25

110 Report.

I was cruising with the Admiral in some pretty good wind yesterday with only the main. Finally, I said the heck with it, lets fly the new 110. I unfurled it and the boat took-off. What a difference. The handling characteristics between the main only and the main-genoa were night and day. With the foresail up, she was buzzing at around 6 knots (?...estimate) and busted smoothly through the chop. With the main only she was slow and pounding.

The 110 was certainly the choice for me in Buzzards Bay. My only complaint is it DOES look small compated to the 150....small potatoes. The admiral had a ball as we crossed from Mattapoisett to Woods Hole in short order (11 miles).

Edited by - on

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 07/27/2009 : 06:20:43

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by hinmo
 110 Report.

I was cruising with the Admiral in some pretty good wind yesterday with only the main. Finally, I said the heck with it, lets fly the new 110. I unfurled it and the boat took-off. What a difference. The handling characteristics between the main only and the main-genoa were night and day. With the foresail up, she was buzzing at around 6 knots (?...estimate) and busted smoothly through the chop. With the main only she was slow and pounding.

The 110 was certainly the choice for me in Buzzards Bay. My only complaint is it DOES look small compated to the 150....small potatoes. The admiral had a ball as we crossed from Mattapoisett to Woods Hole in short order (11 miles).
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

My boat sails like a pig with main only. If I need to use just one sail, it will be the head sail everytime.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 07/27/2009 : 06:40:27

Usually sailing on main alone is slow, but I did it once in a lot of wind, and had a good sail. I flattened the outhaul and the boat was near hull speed, pointed fairly well, tacked well and it didn't heel too much. The only challenge was in jibing in that much wind.

The reason why I did it was because there was so much wind that I was hesitant to raise both sails that day while singlehanding. When I raised and lowered the mainsail, the boat vaned into the wind and behaved fairly well long enough for me to get the sail up and down, and to get back to the tiller.

Edited by - on

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 07/27/2009 : 07:24:14

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 Usually sailing on main alone is slow, but I did it once in a lot of wind, and had a good sail. I flattened the outhaul and the boat was near hull speed, pointed fairly well, tacked well and it didn't heel too much. The only challenge was in jibing in that much wind.

The reason why I did it was because there was so much wind that I was hesitant to raise both sails that day while singlehanding. When I raised and lowered the mainsail, the boat vaned into the wind and behaved fairly well long enough for me to get the sail up and down, and to get back to the tiller.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

With single handing that does make sense in terms of safety.

Edited by - on

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