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Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Why last place?

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Rich P
1st Mate

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USA
77 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/23/2009 : 19:40:30

So the C-25 is resurected (http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=18934). Have been out for a few sails around the bay and went and "joined" a weekly sail around a local island. I know there is a little growth on the bottom (did some brushing last weekend below the waterline), but every boat wound up faster than us, even the one that ran aground wound up passing us for a second time. We were sailing in pretty light winds, I have no idea what size sails are rigged, but we got smoked to the point it was comical. Is this normal for a C-25 (even if it hasn't sunk

) What can be done to make this boat at least keep up with the pack?

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 07/23/2009 : 20:45:45

Because I wasn't there, and somebody has to be last.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 07/24/2009 : 06:31:07

If you can see "a little growth on the bottom," that's probably the problem. A little growth on the bottom of a sailboat ruins it's speed, for the same reason that champion swimmers shave their bodies. Every tiny stalk of algae on the bottom and keel and rudder is like a little hair. It's attached to the boat at it's base, like a hair is attached at the root, but it extends well above that. All that surface area, all around the hair and all along it's length, in effect, increases the "wetted surface" of the boat, ie., the amount of it's surface area that is submerged in the water. More wetted surface means there's more drag, and drag slows the boat. If you remove all those millions of tiny hairs, you eliminate a massive amount of drag. A little brushing isn't enough. It's probably all over the keel, rudder and bottom, and once it's established it requires a vigorous scrubbing. If you don't have antifouling paint on the boat, the boat will probably have to be hauled, scrubbed and lightly sanded to get it off thoroughly. Antifouling paint with Irgarol or Biolux will do a good job of drastically slowing the growth, and it should come off with a light scrub.

The fact that you don't know what size sails you're using is a concern, too. If you're using a small sail, designed for strong winds, and, if the wind is light, then you're letting the others have a "horsepower" advantage. Ask an experienced sailor to help you sort out your sails and give you a little basic instruction on how to select the best one for the amount of winds.

A C25 in reasonably good sailing condition and trim should be near the head of the pack, not at the rear. I'm betting the problem is mostly with maintenance of the boat, and remediable.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 07/24/2009 07:11:17

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 07/24/2009 : 06:55:32

What were the other boats? Derek Crawford regularly embarrasses a lot of "faster" boats and has a great race record down in TX. Jim Baumgart likes to be the smallest boat in an ocean race, hoping his handicap will push him up to something other than dead-last. Bottom condition, sail condition, sail trim and shape, course relative to the wind... They all can make a big difference--that's what makes sailing interesting! In very light air, I once ghosted by a 50+' Swan, whose crew pretended not to notice as they tried desperately to figure out why.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 07/24/2009 : 09:25:28

In a fleet of 30 foot and bigger race prepared boats you should expect to be at the back of the pack.

In a fleet of sport boats you should expect to see them sail by you at twice your speed.

Just about anything else the C25 holds its own pretty well. I can pass most anything 30 feet and under on a non-race day.

One thing I've discovered is that we are much faster relative to the fleet downwind than upwind.

In ultra light air (with a clean bottom) you can pass everyone 50 feet and under.

Edited by - on

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 07/24/2009 : 11:49:05

These are some good points but there are a zillion things that can get in the way. Is your rig tuned correctly? Did you really crank on those halyards to get the sails as flat as possible (for to-weather pointing? Is that main old and stretched? Did you play with your sail trim (outhaul, cunningham, traveler, vang?) and see if it added speed? Were you holding your mouth right

? You know, I've simply moved the jib sheet car back and had it make quite a difference.

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 07/24/2009 : 12:03:13

I agree with Jim, especially the tall rigs in light air. I once did an overnight race single-handed and stayed alongside a 34' Hunter all night in winds under 10 knots.....and we were reaching. Add an asym spinnaker off wind and I would have blown it away.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 07/24/2009 : 14:07:54

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by DaveR
 ...Did you really crank on those halyards to get the sails as flat as possible... You know, I've simply moved the jib sheet car back and had it make quite a difference.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">He said it was light air, suggesting fuller sails and moving the jib cars forward... and you shouldn't try to point with the big boys, especially in light air.

Edited by - on

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 07/24/2009 : 14:14:59

There are so many factors that come into play like Dave R said. I raced last Wednesday and came in last place. Why?

First, my bottom is dirty and I need a bottom job. In the meantime I'm going to borrow a friend's hydro-hoist (his boat is getting a bottom job) and try to pressure wash some of that crap off. That should really help but until then it's slowing me down big time.

Second, I don't have the right sails. My biggest head sail is a 130 and everyone else was running 150's and 155's and it was light air. The first leg was down wind, and even though we had a lousy start we were able to overtake 4 boats on the downwind leg running the spin. It's when we had to go on the upwind leg that we got killed. My mainsail is old and kind of blown out. The next major thing I'm buying for the boat is a nice new 155. later I can do the main.

Third, my crew was inexperienced. I had one of the best racers in our yacht club (He sails a 250 and wins all the time, his boat's the one getting a bottom job) sailing with me as tactician. I'm a decent sailor with a good amount of experience but new to big boat racing, and I was learning stuff. Everyone else on the boat was very green so we had some tacking snafu's and problems raising the genny around the mark.

Four, most of the other boats were bigger. On the B fleet I was racing a really nice C-27 (with a Hobie 33 spin), two C-30's, a Macgregor 26, San Juan 28 and a fast little Hunter 21. The A fleet has Vipers, Olson 30's J-29's S2's, melges etc.

Five, I didn't buy my C-25 to race, I bought it to have fun with my friends and family. I'm going to do what I can to improve her as I can afford it, but I'm not sweating the racing part. My down below is nicer than almost all the boats on the A fleet, in fact I use my C 25 like a summer home. My band's playing a gig tonight, and then I'm going to the marina and crashing on Stephanos. Try doing that on a Melges 22. :) The racing is fun, but if I want to go real fast I'll just crew on some of the A fleet boats until I get Stephanos up to speed.

Edited by - on

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