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Overnight cruise to Beaufort, NC. Advice?

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windsong
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USA
318 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/13/2009 : 10:45:55

Hi all ye cruisers. I'm planning a 125-nm, cruise all offshore from Little River, SC to Beaufort, NC next month. This takes me around Frying Pan Shoals and puts me offshore for at least 24 hours straight. It is my most ambitious cruise to date, and I'd be happy to hear any and all advice. A chart of the route is at the end of this post. Anticipating your feedback regarding safety equipment, I have a chartplotter and a handheld for backup; fixed VHF with DSC and a handheld backup; autopilot; radar reflector; Good PFD w/ tether and jacklines; bailing bucket; strobes, flares, foulies, three 2-gallon gas cans, emergency tiller, two anchors, to list the biggies. I will have one other person crewing with me (I hope). I'll sail up. Spend 1 day, then sail back for a roundtrip distance of 250 nm. Winds are predominantly S in this area at this time of year. Anyway, I'd value your feedback. (Anyone want to go?) Thanks in advance.

Michael Hetzer
"Windsong"
2009 Catalina 250 WK HN984
Myrtle Beach, SC

Edited by - windsong on 08/13/2009 11:47:28

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 08/13/2009 : 12:41:11

Should be a fun trip! You know there's some weather in the Atlantic this week, and in September it could also be stormy.

Here's an [url="http://www.weather.com/maps/news/atlstorm2/tropicalatlanticsatellite_large_animated.html"]animated link[/url] that will show the lows coming off Africa, for at least today.

How do you plan to follow the changing weather patterns while you're on the boat?

Edited by - JohnP on 08/13/2009 12:42:45

windsong
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Response Posted - 08/13/2009 : 13:47:28

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JohnP
 How do you plan to follow the changing weather patterns while you're on the boat?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

When I'm within range of a cellphone tower, I can use my laptop. But at sea, I'll be relying on eyes and ears.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 08/13/2009 : 14:41:12

The itinerary that you've provided is very ambitious for a 25' boat. For each leg of the trip, you have to average more than 5 kts per hour, either under sail or under power, regardless of wind direction, windspeed, or wave action. You really should have enough flexibility to be able to wait for weather before starting off each 125 mile leg of the trip.

Suppose, for example, you get lucky and have good wind and waves (10-15 kts out of the south or west) for the first leg, but, after you lay over for a day, when you're ready to head south, the wind turns on the nose and increases to 15, gusting to 20-25. You could very easily not be able to make that distance under sail in one or even two days, and you might not be able to motorsail or motor that distance, for lack of enough fuel. You should never plan a trip offshore in a small boat without enough flexibility in your itinerary to be able to wait for at least 2-3 days, or more, for better weather.

I'd suggest you plan a shorter trip, such as 75 miles. You'll find that, unless you have very favorable conditions, 75 miles is a long trip in a small boat. By comparison, the Chesapeake Bay Governor's Cup race is 75 miles, and it starts at about 6:00 pm. This year, I watched some boats still finishing at about 1:30 pm the next afternoon. Most of those boats were much bigger and faster than a C250, and had full racing crews. If they had another 50 miles to go, they could easily have still been sailing in the wee hours of the next morning.

I'd also suggest that you consider chartering a 30 footer or larger boat with diesel auxiliary engine for your first trip of 125 miles or more offshore. 125 miles is really blue water sailing, and I don't think a Catalina 25/250 is a good choice of boat for the trip, unless you have lots of flexibility time, and a lot of experience.

I like to encourage people to extend themselves and not be afraid of sailing and sailboats, but really bad things can happen in a trip of that distance, and both the boat and crew should be up to the task. You might have a great and successful cruise, but there's too much risk that it could be otherwise.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 08/13/2009 15:12:41

JohnP
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Response Posted - 08/13/2009 : 18:27:42

I am interested in learning about that area of the Atlantic. [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frying_Pan_Shoals"]Frying Pan Shoals [/url] seems like a great place for wreck diving, and maybe a great place to become a shipwreck.

Further north is called the Graveyard of the Atlantic. Here's a [url="http://www.atlantischarters.net/graphics/wreckmap-00.jpg"]map.[/url]

So what does Tom Potter say - he lives right along the coast on Pamlico Sound and the outer banks?

Tom, do you routinely sail out of Ocrakoke Inlet or Hatteras Inlet and cruise around in the so-called Graveyard of the Atlantic and south of Cape Lookout?

We need to have local knowledge about this.

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
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Response Posted - 08/13/2009 : 19:19:38

It can get nasty at both the Frying Pan and Cape lookout shoals. You can check out the number of wrecks on the charts to back that up. But like anywhere, if you get a good weather window it can be just fine. I grew up fishing and shrimping up and down the NC Coast and many days looking at the Frying Pan light tower while on charter boats. I have also lost many friends in these waters including my great grandfather.

I haven't much "sailing" experience in the area, my time was mostly aboard commercial fishing boats. Now that I've been living here on the Pamlico Sound for about a year I am learning the area. Since I've been here, I've found I need a little bigger and heavier boat with a diesel and I pick her up Saturday.

Edited by - Tom Potter on 08/13/2009 20:03:12

John Russell
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Response Posted - 08/13/2009 : 20:52:13

Steve was being nice. I think this is a foolhardy trip for a Catalina 250. Particularly a Catalina 250 that is only a few weeks with her skipper. The hull speed of this boat is just over 6 knots. In order to make your timetable, you'll have to average 5.2 knots for every hour of the 48 that you're giving yourself for transit. You did mean you would actually take 24 hours to get there and then spend a day then take another 24 hours to return, right? If you meant get up in the morning and get to your destination in time for dinner, or even bedtime, forget it. You can't exceed hull speed of your boat, laws of physics apply. (Yes, I know that you might get a boost from following seas while you surf down a wave but, hardly something you should count on) That means you need to be sailing near optimum speed every single hour for the entire length of the trip. No allowance for crappy conditions or even lighter than desirable winds. I assume you have an autopilot but even with that, singlehanding this distance is a lot of hard work.

Tying a timetable to a trip like this is asking for disaster. A skipper tied to a timetable <s>may</s> will make decisions he would otherwise not make. Lives can be lost. Throw in your <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> When I'm within range of a cellphone tower, I can use my laptop. But at sea, I'll be relying on eyes and ears.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">style of weather safety, you're tempting Neptune to have his way with you. You'll never outrun nor wlikely survive a significant weather event in the Atlantic during hurricane season.

I applaud your spirit of adventure but, this is asking too much of your boat and her crew.

Tom Potter, with years of experience in these waters, has moved on to a larger boat. There's a lesson there.

Edited by - John Russell on 08/13/2009 20:55:09

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 08/14/2009 : 06:55:24

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 ...you'll have to average 5.2 knots...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">That's in direct lines to your waypoints, assuming the wind is not only up, but outside of 45 degrees to each waypoint. I figure your "maximum beating speed" (VMG while tacking toward a windward waypoint while making 5.5 knots) is about 3.8 knots. That's the maximum rate in ideal conditions at which you can close on a windward point unless you turn on the engine and head up. (I picked 5.5 because you can't sustain hull-speed on a beat.)

But that's beside the point. It appears you'll be some 30 miles out from any inlet most of the time... Thus, if something comes up and you want to seek shelter, you'll be about six hours away from a place in shoal waters where you've never been. In other words, there's no place to hide. Not too many miles in the other direction is the Gulf Stream, which generates its own violent storm systems. (Forget about hurricanes--at least you know when they're coming.) This is territory for an "offshore sailboat" with a captain who has experience dealing with "stuff"--lets say 40 knot winds with 20' breaking seas--when there's no place to hide. It might very well not happen, but some say Murphy was an optimist.

Just a couple of weeks ago, friends of mine left Provincetown to cross Cape Cod Bay to the canal in a C-34 II... Winds forecast SW at 10-15... Off they went. Well, then it was 15,...20,...25...35... then their wind instruments died. Pretty soon they were battling 8-12' breaking seas that were coming over the bow and cabintop... The wind was parting zippers in the canvas, and they were fighting to keep the boat under control. There had been no warning from NOAA. They reached port safely, but were beginning to wonder. There were multiple Maydays, and some good-sized fishing boat went down...

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 08/14/2009 08:14:14

windsong
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Response Posted - 08/14/2009 : 08:43:42

I posted this with the idea that it would foster a lively discussion on the merits of offshore sailing in a C25. You all have not let me down. :)

As for the Beaufort cruise, that's easy. There exists a much safer route offshore Little River to Cape Fear, then inside on the ICW to Masonboro Inlet, then back outside on Onslow Bay to Beaufort. This keeps land within sight at all times. Heck, my cellphone would probably work for much of the trip. For the all-outside route, it would certainly require a VERY clear weather window. If a window doesn't open up, then I can do the outside-inside-outside route, which still looks fun as hell. I've been out to the Frying Pan Shoals platform many times on other people's sailboats, so I know what it's like out there. The edge of the Gulf Stream. Nothing to mess with. (I'm going out there in two weeks on a friends Beneteau diving for lobsters!)

I would like to toss one hand grenade into this discussion, if I may:
People - at least one of whom is in this forum - are sailing these boats across the Gulf Stream from FL to Bahamas and back.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ymn4B9Z9oFE
Be sure to check out the wave at 3:55.

Edited by - windsong on 08/14/2009 10:17:23

Nautiduck
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Response Posted - 08/14/2009 : 09:47:17

Michael, many people have crossed to the Bahamas in our boats. Some have had a relatively smooth sail and others have had a tougher time. It really boils down to a good weather window and winds of the right speed and direction. That is why the advice focuses so much on not being confined to a limited timeframe and being certain that the weather wont turn on you while you are out there. It is not unusual for people to wait days on end waiting for the conditions to be right for the Bahamas trip. They also carry lots of extra fuel and sometimes sail with other boats along.

My main advice would be to have at least one other person with you. If you go take pictures and some video. Life is an adventure.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 08/14/2009 09:47:49

John Russell
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Response Posted - 08/14/2009 : 10:33:22

Paul (Britinusa) made this entry regarding his [url="http://www.catalina-capri-25s.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=18076&SearchTerms=gulf,stream"]crossing of the gulf stream in his C250 WB.[/url] Notice that he did it in company woth other vessels and his trip did not include stretches as long as you suggested in your post.

I think the best benefit to our boat can be its trailer. If you want to sail at a distant location, put the boat on the trailer. If you want to sail very long distances, I think a bigger boat is in order.

Edited by - on

windsong
Captain

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Response Posted - 08/14/2009 : 10:42:11

Thanks, Randy. Point taken. My crewmate owns a big Bristol and has made this same run over two dozen times.

Pictures and video? You got it. Life an adventure? Amen!

John, thanks for reposting Paul's great adventure to Bimini. How wonderful!

Edited by - windsong on 08/14/2009 10:59:24

jlguthri
1st Mate

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Response Posted - 08/14/2009 : 18:47:15

I live in Harkers Island, aprox 2 miles from Beaufort by sea. With the thunderstorms this week, there is no way I'd venture out any further off shore than I can drop anchor. Shoot, we got 9.75 inches of rain Wednesday in less than 4 hours.

I'd be tempted to take the intercostal and perhaps few inlet jumps a few miles in the ocean, when weather permitted and IF I WAS FAMILIAR with the inlets (like you suggest).

Perhaps, I'm a wimp. I just can't bring my self to take my Catalina 25 far off shore when there are so many protected waters in this part of the world. I've never had mine more than 50' water depth. Pamilco sound can get scary enough in bad weather.

Sounds fun... Be safe...

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 08/16/2009 : 07:16:06

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by windsong
 People - at least one of whom is in this forum - are sailing these boats across the Gulf Stream from FL to Bahamas and back.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ymn4B9Z9oFE
Be sure to check out the wave at 3:55.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> Some people believe the trip from Miami to the Bahamas is foolhardy for a C25 or similar boat, but I'm not one of them. Lots of small boats make the approximately 65 miles crossing in small sailboats every year, including some of our members. But that passage is almost half the distance you're talking about.

Small boats go to Miami and wait for a fairly reliable window of 2-3 days duration, and then they race across as fast as they can. They carry enough fuel so they can motor all the way if necessary, and they start motoring or motorsailing whenever their speed under sail drops below about 5 kts. They leave at dusk, and sail all night. For the first half of the crossing, they use the Miami light for basic navigation, and then the Bimini light comes into view, and it leads them the rest of the way. They usually arrive after dawn, so they can enter during daylight. The idea is to find a reliable weather window, carry enough fuel to motor the entire way if necessary, and to limit the amount of time that you are exposed to the hazards of the seas.

We'd all like to be able to encourage you to experience a great adventure, but we wouldn't be doing you a favor if we encouraged you to put yourself in unreasonable jeopardy. I'm not suggesting you not sail offshore. I'm just suggesting you scale it down to reduce your exposure.

Edited by - on

SEAN
Admiral

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Response Posted - 08/16/2009 : 19:07:21

We just got back from a 80mile trip one way home , it took 14 hours .
we left at 11am and got in at 1 am . i was fine up to twelve but by 14 hours i needed a nap ..my wife can only stay on watch for a little while so i could only rest for short spurts .

we had a blast the night was warm , and the weather was good , we motor sailed into the wind going and coming home not sure how that works ..

we went to watch Hill Rode Island / Dave that channel is pretty shallow ;)

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 08/16/2009 : 20:13:40

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by SEAN
 we went to watch Hill Rode Island / Dave that channel is pretty shallow ;)<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Not the right channel... Did you go to Stonington and then around the W. end of Sandy Point (with 20' right next to the beach)? If you went around the W. end of Napatree point, then yes, you were in very skinny water! Some local powerboats do it--that doesn't include me.

Edited by - on

DaveR
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Response Posted - 08/17/2009 : 05:59:41

I'd never attempt anything like this without being able to watch the weather and as quite a few have mentioned I'd have enough gas to motor the entire way if need be.
But I'd never consider the trip you have planned on one of our boats anyway. I would do a Key Largo to Bimini thing in the right conditions.

Edited by - on

SEAN
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Response Posted - 08/17/2009 : 06:18:17

hey dave , yea that real long channel ...in the beging it was only about 7 feet at high tide ..then about 4 of the first bouys were not in the right spot ..to close to the beach ..we got back in the channel 10` made it about 1/2 way in there was alot of boats anchored not so many sail boats ..and we wanted to start home on low tide ..i did think we would get out of there ..so we left an anchored ocean side :D it was a calm night lots of fog in the morning ..we had a great trip the water was so clear i almost could see the anchor ..

we sailed the the ocean side of fisher then back through the race..
it was about 155 miles total for a 4 day trip i had 21 gallons of gas when we left ..we came back and had about 8 gallons left

Edited by - on

SEAN
Admiral

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Response Posted - 08/17/2009 : 06:23:52

i just looked at the map we started the channel by edwards point ..by stonington

Edited by - on

keydup
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Response Posted - 08/20/2009 : 18:55:10

You have received some great info here. I live about 10 miles down the ICW from Beaufort and frequently take our c25 that way. A great trip to Cape Lookout can turn into a ROUGH ride home in a hurry. Be sure to research bridge openings on the ICW, it is a great trip inside, at least from Beaufort to Southport, that is as far as I have personally been on the inside. Currents in the ditch will make a big impact on your travel time also. If you want some ideas of where to go when you get here, let me know. Beaufort is a great spot to anchor up and spend several nights. Great food, great views, usually live music going on.

Edited by - on

Scooter
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Response Posted - 09/01/2009 : 06:31:37

I'm getting to this late and I'm sorry to say I haven't read all the posts in details...but we recently sailed to Wrightsville beach from Beaufort and back to Cape Lookout. We went with about 8 larger boats. It took about 13+/- hours there and about the same back. The other boats had a tougher time going south. We had to leave a day later to Wrightsville and had a smooth sail down (1/2 motor sail). They all wish they had waited. We all pretty much motored North to Lookout.

Some went in the ditch but they said there are several bridges that you had to wait for.

My 2 cents:

1. Take more gas than you list in your initial post. Take more than you think you will need. For me it's about a gallon an hour.

2. Rent an EPIRB.

3. Watch for restricted areas. You might be mistaken for a military practice target.

And yes take pics and/or video. Maybe keep a journal if you have time to write/type?

Fair winds and following seas.

Scott

Edited by - on

windsong
Captain

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Response Posted - 09/01/2009 : 07:04:03

Thanks, Scott. Sounds like a great trip. Yes, you could easily find yourself right on the nose for that sail. The winds are usually S-SE, but they'll shift over more to the West plenty.
For my trip, I'm going outside-inside-outside so as to avoid Frying Pan Shoals. For the all-outside trip, I would need some sweeeeet weather. Of course, should such portentous weather descend upon my little corner of the coast, then I would have no choice but to head for the big water.

Edited by - on

windsong
Captain

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Response Posted - 04/30/2010 : 10:29:32

After 120 nm, 1 breakdown, some severe weather, a change of crew and abundant food, rum and fun, Windsong now sits safely in her new, temporary slip in Oriental, NC. I made the trip charted above, plus the final leg to Oriental up the ICW. Amazing trip. I hated for it to end, but the good news is that I have to be back in Myrtle Beach by the end of June, so I get to do the whole thing again in the other direction. A few clips:

Our bird friend, Wilson, found us 20 miles offshore, then hitched a ride all the way to Beaufort, then died of unknown causes that night (he's on the lifeline):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzR12pcXaVw

Ben caught a fish:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRsI0Yqk58c

The final leg:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Keb8mKS-R-Y

Thanks for all your advice. All of it (even "don't go!") was taken into consideration and weighed into the planning.

Edited by - windsong on 04/30/2010 10:46:08

DaveR
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Response Posted - 05/03/2010 : 06:44:46

Sounds like an adventure to me! And the adjustment to your course made for a much safer passage. What kind of breakdown? How bad did the weather get?

Edited by - on

windsong
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Response Posted - 05/03/2010 : 08:26:20

The breakdown was steering. My chain broke. Arlyn has already posted about this issue, after I told him what happened, and he has asked people to check their chains for cracking. It happened at the start of our crossing of Onslow Bay, which meant we had 70 nm of offshore sailing before us. We got the auxiliary steering on in seconds and hand-steered all day. No big deal, but I was glad for my crew.
The weather was a severe storm system that moved through while we were tied up in Beaufort (gusting to 40 kts). I chose to stay put that day and use the extra time to make the steering repair. Which I did without any problems.
The modified route (inside Frying Pan Shoals) made more sense. Granted, I still didn't see land all day from Wrightsville to Beaufort, but I knew it was just 15nm away. Also, I got some local knowledge from the coasties and local marinas on navigating the shifting inlets at New River and Bogue Inlet, in case that were to have become necessary. I'd still consider the offshore route around Frying Pan Shoals, but frankly I'd hate to miss Wrightsville Beach. We tied up free at Bluewater Restaurant, which has a great bar and restaurant, and partied till midnight - a poor choice given our 3 am departure the next morning. But that's another story...

Edited by - windsong on 05/03/2010 10:15:47

Tom Potter
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Response Posted - 05/03/2010 : 19:28:50

Welcome to the Pamlico Sound!
We just got back from a 3 day sail to Ocracoke. Put that trip on your to do list.

Edited by - Tom Potter on 05/03/2010 19:30:51

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Michael Hetzer"Windsong"2009 Catalina 250 WK HN984Myrtle Beach, SC

Michael Hetzer
"Windsong"
2009 Catalina 250 WK HN984
Myrtle Beach, SC