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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

Right of Way

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hinmo
Navigator

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USA
248 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/06/2009 : 23:13:33

Two sailboats. I'm boat A on a tight tack. B is on beam reach. We are in wide open water. B is an open, smaller sailboat (23ft?) headed towards me. Both are on starboard tacks. Who had the right of way?

Some guy almost t-boned me in open water, if I beared off, I would have still been on a collision course. He finally went behind me, but about 10 ft away. He looked p'd-off, I wasnt happy. Who had the right of way?

"Kukla" '83 FK,SR

Edited by - hinmo on 09/06/2009 23:14:48

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 09/07/2009 : 00:45:47

When two sailboats are on the same tack, the leeward boat has right of way, the windward boat must give way.

Here's a site that outlines the rules for two sail boats meeting:

http://comminfo.rutgers.edu/~elfox/rules.html

Rule #4 is the one it sounds like best applies to your situation.

Edited by - delliottg on 09/07/2009 00:47:01

hinmo
Navigator

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248 Posts

Response Posted - 09/07/2009 : 05:27:22

David - I think it was rule 1. Both on the same tack, me being close-hauled....I had the right of way, correct?

Edited by - on

Renzo
Admiral

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621 Posts

Response Posted - 09/07/2009 : 05:36:13

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by hinmo
 David - I think it was rule 1. Both on the same tack, me being close-hauled....I had the right of way, correct?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

That's what I think too. From your discription, you were both on the same tack but on almost purpendicular courses. Just like the boats pictured in rule one of the rules web site.

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jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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1484 Posts

Response Posted - 09/07/2009 : 05:54:57

FWIW - I don't think it's realy addressed...the same tack, yet perpendicular. Seems rule #1 is in effect.

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hinmo
Navigator

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248 Posts

Response Posted - 09/07/2009 : 07:06:40

Again, if I beared off, I think I would still have been in a collision course at some point. I could have tacked or jibed, but all he had to do was bear off a few degrees (which he ultimately did) and problem solved.

Edited by - on

Ed Cassidy
Captain

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365 Posts

Response Posted - 09/07/2009 : 07:45:46

To quote from the rules,
'The four rules listed below give a basic overview of who has the right-of-way. If all else fails, when two boats are at risk of colliding, the boat that has the other on its starboard must keep out of the way.'
Ed

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hinmo
Navigator

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248 Posts

Response Posted - 09/07/2009 : 08:07:21

Ed - in that case I was in err. But I believe Rule 1 applied, and as I stated, my bearing off a couple degrees would not have alleviated the situations....whereas Boat B only needed to alter course 5 degrees.

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piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 09/07/2009 : 08:07:24

John, even if you were the leeward boat and had the right of way, lets not forget the first thing is that YOU have only one purpose and that is to PREVENT A COLLISION. Is it better to be right or be safe and save your boat and crew. It sounds like both parties here were unclear as to which boat was the give-way vs the stand-on boat. When in doubt, take evasive action and avoid a collision.
David, thanks for that link. I have added it to my IPhone. Now when I get in a collision I can bring up the rules and show the other boat I was right and had the right of way, as we are both sinking!

Steve A

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hinmo
Navigator

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USA
248 Posts

Response Posted - 09/07/2009 : 08:10:07

Steve - I understand. It was an open ocean and just seemed like his responsibility to alter course 5 degrees.

Next Time I go for the T-Bone!

just kiddin!

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JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 09/07/2009 : 08:30:40

Remember, racers often pass within inches. It doesn't matter if you were close hauled and he was on a reach. If he was leeward, he had right away. It doesn't matter if you were sailing upwind and he was coming downwind wing and wing.

If windward caused the leeward boat to change course even 1 degree, windward fouled leeward.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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3444 Posts

Response Posted - 09/07/2009 : 09:06:03

"I had the right of way" makes a sad epitaph.

Edited by - John Russell on 09/07/2009 09:20:17

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/07/2009 : 10:19:25

If I get the picture correctly, he was on your starboard side. If all he's learned is the "powerboat rule" (right makes right), he figures he's the stand-on vessel and you're give-way. (At night, you'd be showing him a green light and he'd be showing you red.) He probably thought you should tack--not bear away. However, if you wait too long to do so, you might be tacking as he bares off--a new problem sometimes called "Shall we dance?" Under sail (and not racing), I used to give the benefit of the doubt to the sailboat on my starboard by tacking early behind him. Some skippers probably figured I didn't know the rule.

John's "epitaph" applies.

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piseas
Former Treasurer

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2017 Posts

Response Posted - 09/07/2009 : 11:56:44

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 If all he's learned is the "powerboat rule" (right makes right), he figures he's the stand-on vessel and you're give-way.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Dave, don't you mean, Might Make Right!

Steve A

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/07/2009 : 12:27:30

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by piseas
 Dave, don't you mean, Might Make Right!

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">In case anybody's wondering, I mean the basic rule that the boat on the right has right of way. That is, however, a slight mis-statement. The boat on my starboard, all other things equal, has the duty to hold course and speed unless I don't give way (my duty). Skippers shouldn't think of "rights" but of duties that are designed to avoid collisions. Both boats involved have those duties.

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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3758 Posts

Response Posted - 09/07/2009 : 13:23:49

I've never understood why two boats in open water need to get close. I usually make a small adjustment adjust early to avoid that, but even 15 miles off shore on Lake Erie I've had other boats adjust to pass close.

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Renzo
Admiral

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621 Posts

Response Posted - 09/07/2009 : 14:02:57

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave5041
 I've never understood why two boats in open water need to get close. I usually make a small adjustment adjust early to avoid that, but even 15 miles off shore on Lake Erie I've had other boats adjust to pass close.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
For the same reason truckers pass close- They want to see your seat covers

Edited by - Renzo on 09/07/2009 14:03:44

hinmo
Navigator

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USA
248 Posts

Response Posted - 09/07/2009 : 16:37:21

Folks - I should add a statement. I was tacking close hauled trying to get out of the outer harbor (SE facing) into a SE wind. He was on a reach of some sort cruising back in. When I say "open ocean", it was not really. I needed to be close hauled on the next couple tacks to get to the open bay....he had a full angle on the wind to cruise back into any portion of the harbor. I just thought it made sense (as in common sense) for him to change course a couple degrees w/o having to tack or jibe, rather than upsetting my course entirely.

Anywhoo....not a biggie....interesting interpretations

Edited by - hinmo on 09/07/2009 16:38:12

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