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hinmo
Navigator

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USA
248 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/14/2009 : 08:45:56

Yes, I've searched and read all the posts on replacing the window seals. While there is still some hesitation on my part to do it (is there any harm if they do leak?), I only saw one person mention their bulkhead/plyood surronding the windows was rotten.

What do you do in that case? Has anyone had this issue and resolved it?

I dont want to start the bear-of-a-job of replacing the window seals and find out I have rotten wood and no doable resolution.

thx

"Kukla" '83 FK,SR

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 09/14/2009 : 09:05:24

The risk is to the wood core that is backing the fiberglass. If it gets wet, it can rot, if it rots, the structural integrity of the boat can be compromised -- not to mention re-sale value. Given that the boat is 26 years old, most of its depreciation has probably already occurred. If it loses more value, it would likely become un-sellable, you'll have a lot of fiberglass to dispose of whenever you might decide to be done with it. That's the potential harm.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 09/14/2009 : 09:11:27

So john's solution is one approach, another is to remove the interior skin around the windows and rebuild. This is difficult, messy, and generally not a profitable fix. On the otherhand, its a lot cheaper than buying a new boat.

Edited by - on

farrison
Navigator

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USA
166 Posts

Response Posted - 09/14/2009 : 09:22:57

If your windows leak, then the wood core has been or is wet. But It is not the end of the world. I have replaced all the window seals on two boats now and both had plywood core that had been wet and had delaminated. We removed the window frames, covered the openings with plastic and let the core dry out. We then injected foam into the spaces between the inner and outer skins of the boat, and let it expand and cure. The excess foam was then trimmed away, and the edge sealed with a simple siliconized acrylic caulk. This seals the core from further water ingress.
The window frames were cleaned and the seal kit from CD was used to reseal the windows. Both boats are now dry. I submitted a write-up on the project that was in the Mainsheet, but they cut it up pretty badly to fit it in the issue.

Paul

Edited by - on

hinmo
Navigator

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USA
248 Posts

Response Posted - 09/14/2009 : 12:52:01

Paul - can you email me the info?

Again, I have minor leakage that I can live with, but am wondering whats the collatoral damage?

Edited by - on

fpill
1st Mate

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USA
51 Posts

Response Posted - 09/14/2009 : 16:19:37

I basically did the same thing as Paul.

Covered the boat to keep the rain out.

I pulled the windows, poured <s>some</s> a lot of acetone to dry the wood core.

Waited about a week (It was easy, I only had time on the weekends).

Instead of foam I used West marine epoxy with fairing filler to make it thick and sealed the window frame so when the windows leak again it won't be into the wood core.

Sanded so the windows would fit in again, and used the Catalina Direct window kit.

It seemed real scary when I first pulled the windows, and there were some moments when I wasn't sure if I would get it back together, but it worked.

This was my original post on replacing windows.
http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=19377

As I remember Paul's article was a great help!!!

Edited by - on

Happy D
Admiral

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921 Posts

Response Posted - 09/14/2009 : 18:04:46

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Instead of foam I used West marine epoxy with fairing filler to make it thick and sealed the window frame so when the windows leak again it won't be into the wood core.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Thickened epoxy would be the second best choice. If the wood is rotted fit some pieces of wood inside the gap around the window opening and glue those pieces in with thickened epoxy. Put in as large a piece as you can.
Fairing filler is not the correct material to thicken epoxy in this application. Fumed silica and microfibers is the correct stuff to use when making glue. Foam doesn't belong in there at all. 

[url="http://users.gotsky.com/dhapp/portlights/portlights.html"]Here's how I did it[/url]
Now you don't have to go to this extent but I know exactly what is inside my bulkhead.

Edited by - on

hinmo
Navigator

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USA
248 Posts

Response Posted - 09/15/2009 : 01:32:59

Thanks Happ - wow, what a job!. I dont think I would be up to that level of repair.

Paul (Farrison) - you mentioned injecting "foam" into the spaces between the inner and outer liners. What was this "foam"?
Thanks

Edited by - on

farrison
Navigator

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USA
166 Posts

Response Posted - 09/15/2009 : 08:13:35

Hinmo;
The foam I used was the "Great Stuff" brand of minimal expanding, insulating foam sold in hardware stores. I cut down the tube that came with the can and taped on a plastic soda straw to reach further into the gaps. The straw is thinner, and can be flattened to reach into the thin gaps between the inner and outer skins. This way we could get the foam as much as a foot or more into the gaps. Foam is used extensively in the composites industry, so we though it was a good choice. It is very sticky and we felt it would act as an adhesive to re-consolidate the core and skins. Like Happy D did, we wedged the gap open, or held it closed with clamps, to get a uniform wall thickness so the windows would fit tightly to the cabin. One other suggestion, the 4200 that came with the CD kit didn't stick very well to the gel coat on the outside. One of the windows on my boat leaked immediately, and when we removed it to re-bed it, the window dropped right out with the 4200 stuck to the frame, but not the cabin. So we replaced it with Boat Life Caulk on the second boat.

I'll send you an e-mail

Paul

Edited by - on

TractorJohn
Deckhand

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USA
24 Posts

Response Posted - 09/15/2009 : 11:01:42

What I found out on my boat was I could stop the leaks only if I could find them. My 27 year old boat leaked everywhere a bolt or screw penetrated, Stancions, grab rails, blocks. 95% of the leaks stopped simply by tightening nuts and bolts. I found that the windows leaked at the top but would not surface and become visible until the water had run completely around the frame. I was able to stop all leaks by injecting a little black windsheild sealer between the rubber seal and the glass. I used a razor blade to pry back the seal just enough to squirt in the goop and then wipe up excess. The leaks between frame and fiberglass I sealed with white polyurethane from Home Depot.
TJ

Edited by - on

hinmo
Navigator

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USA
248 Posts

Response Posted - 09/15/2009 : 11:40:00

TJ - we need to talk. I'm shooting for for attempting an easier solution. I would like some more detail on what you are saying. I'll blast you an email within a day or so.

thanks

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 09/15/2009 : 15:18:46

I watched a guy in my marina fix his windows last year. He removed the frames, dug out the old rotted wood with a screwdriver, inserted 2" square pieces of plywood in the gap only where the screws would go to remount the window frames. These were held there by construction adhesive. He then filled the entire gap with construction adhesive and smoothed the edge with a wet finger.This took him about an hour or less. The next day he put the frames back in. I thought this was brilliant. Strong as nails,Totally waterproof and made a tough job easy.

Edited by - on

hinmo
Navigator

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USA
248 Posts

Response Posted - 09/15/2009 : 16:28:33

islander....thats what I'm talking about!

Edited by - on

Happy D
Admiral

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921 Posts

Response Posted - 09/15/2009 : 18:51:44

Soapbox
Just mix up some spackling and dump that in there. Hell, if your not gonna do it right, who cares what you use. Use morter and call it a fero-cement repair. I got a bag of it laying around. I got some pieces of old brick you can throw in there.
When all you guys get done fixing the front door of your house, why don't we get back to marine repairs.
How pissed off would you be if you found out someone cobbled up your cabin sides. You'd be pissed, so don't pass this junk off to the next boat owner. Do it right or don't do it at all.
End soapbox

Edited by - on

hinmo
Navigator

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USA
248 Posts

Response Posted - 09/16/2009 : 03:36:46

So much for being happy, Hap!

Some of us dont have 3 weeks to dedicate for repair of a boat Hap. In New England, it is rare to even see 3 days w/o rain to perform an extensive repair. Besides, I have 3 boats, 4 motorcycles, a 50 year old house, work 70 hrs a week, and dont expect my Cat25 to ever have much resale value (donation to charity?). So if a "less than perfect" repair gets me several more functional years, thats perfect.

On the flip side, I am going to replace some standing rigging, the rudder and perhaps a window sealing or two....perhaps

Edited by - hinmo on 09/16/2009 09:50:21

Happy D
Admiral

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921 Posts

Response Posted - 09/17/2009 : 05:12:48

Couldn't help myself.

Edited by - on

glen
Captain

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359 Posts

Response Posted - 09/17/2009 : 09:17:04

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Happy D
 
Couldn't help myself.

Hi there Hap. Your van looks great, but I think if you added an awning, you would really have bragging rights

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