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insurance question

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cayugaboater
1st Mate

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50 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/21/2009 : 19:58:47

called for a quote from boats r us and they only want to insure the value of the boat for what I paid for it, not its book value.

So if you are fortunate enough to get a good deal on a boat, you can't get coverage for what its actually worth? I understand they want it surveyed, but he was saying even after it wss surveyed, no matter what it was appraised at, they were only going to offer me insurance for the purchase price i paid. This seems wierd, was just wondering if this is what happens to everyone else or if my file just got stuck with a wacko.

89 wingkeel;std rig.
Sail #5811

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 10/21/2009 : 20:49:04

Call Progressive. I have an "agreed value" policy with them.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 10/21/2009 : 20:55:18

Yep, call Progressive, we have an agreed price as well.

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5379 Posts

Response Posted - 10/21/2009 : 21:45:41

I joined the US Power Squadron in part because they offer lower prices on boat insurance. I've gotten $12000 coverage for the boat and its contents, and $2MM per person per incident for liability for about $350 per year.

The policy is issued through Northwestern Insurance.

In addition to the insurance, I've also learned a great deal about piloting, navigation, marine electronics, engine maintenance and offering boating courses to the general public.

Edited by - on

Tom Gauntt
Navigator

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204 Posts

Response Posted - 10/22/2009 : 06:04:41

I called around a while back and went with Progressive with an agreed to value as well. I've never had to make a claim, so I can't offer any advice on that side of the equation, but getting the insurance was pretty easy. Remember to factor the cost of a survey into your quote if it's required. Progressive did not require a current survey.

Edited by - on

cayugaboater
1st Mate

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50 Posts

Response Posted - 10/22/2009 : 06:19:43

So do you guys make your deal with progressive one on one and outside of your agent who has your homeowner's policy or do you obtain a policy from progressive through your agent that handles your homeowners?

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 10/22/2009 : 06:35:57

As an insurance agent in California, I can speak with some authority here. I represent many companies, including Progressive, all of which I receive a commission. I found however BoatUS had the best rate even after getting a commission from the companies I represented. I was able to purchase either an agreed value vs actual value. I opted for the agreed value. I also purchased the towing package as well. I do not sell BoatUS. You must buy from them directly.
Also as a PAID member of this Association, you get a discount on membership on BoatUS.

Re the issue with Progressive, if you call them directly, you get at least 10% less than buying from an agent. Most other companies, this is not the case.

You might want to check out these [url="http://www.finweb.com/insurance/boat-owners-insurance-agreed-value-vs-actual-value.html"]definitions.[/url]
Steve A

Edited by - piseas on 10/22/2009 06:46:33

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/22/2009 : 06:45:03

You can also get a quote on-line from BoatUS--they might not be the cheapest but coverage is very comprehensive and friends have had very good claim service. I went with my homeowner/car/umbrella insurer (agreed value) so the boat would be under the umbrella liability policy (for a few bucks less than BoatUS).

Check whether the policy offers salvage coverage and review the recent threads on this site discussing salvage versus towing--i.e., if your boat goes up on the rocks, it might belong to the guy who pulls it off. Don't make your choice based only on the cost of lunch.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
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Response Posted - 10/22/2009 : 07:08:06

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 Don't make your choice based only on the cost of lunch.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I totally agree with Dave on this point. Ask questions to whom ever you are buying. Most do not ask to see the policy conditions prior to buying like they should and even after reading, it really takes a qualified individual to decipher what is covered, what is excluded, etc. I am sorry to say there is much ambiguity in the insurance industry. I myself had to make several calls to BoatUS re coverages but did get my questions answered. Make sure you take down the persons name who you talk to and date and time the call.
Steve A

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 10/22/2009 : 07:54:23

I'm insured with USAA and they acted as an agent for Progressive for my boat insurance. I guess the real reason I went with Progressive is that I trust USAA.

Edited by - John Russell on 10/22/2009 07:55:04

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 10/22/2009 : 08:09:42

I had no problem getting an agreed value policy from Boat/US.

edit: Practical Sailor did an insurance comparison a few years ago and rated Boat/US very high on claims response. They also found big differences in premiums between different companies in different regions. The same package might be cheaper in the Southeast from company A, but company B might have the same package for less on the west coast.

Edited by - Dave5041 on 10/22/2009 08:18:26

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/22/2009 : 08:31:41

I guess I missed that you were talking to BoatUS... How do the numbers compare (purchase vs. value) and where are you? All "agreed values" I've insured to were less than or equal to what I paid... I can see why an insurer wouldn't want to go higher. If the same turns out with others (Progressive et al), that might be the price you pay for a great deal. Your premium will be a little lower, and the real issue you should be worrying about is liability protection--not a potential few thousand for the boat in the unlikely event of a total loss.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 10/22/2009 08:33:24

cayugaboater
1st Mate

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50 Posts

Response Posted - 10/22/2009 : 08:45:25

BoatUS is no good for me. Just tried it again, I called them and said I wanted a policy for agreed upon value/book value. They want to give me only coverage for the purchase price. The guy was adamant, they won't write it for any agreed upon book value, his exact words were,"we won't cover it that way, we will only cover you for your investment". So maybe they have changed their policy or something, but that's the response I got from them. Guess I'll be calling progressive.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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3444 Posts

Response Posted - 10/22/2009 : 09:30:20

My agreed value was around the purchase price so, it could be that there was a cap but it just never came up. Dave might be right, it could be the price you pay for a great deal when you bought the boat.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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Response Posted - 10/22/2009 : 10:22:15

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I'm insured with USAA and they acted as an agent for Progressive for my boat insurance. I guess the real reason I went with Progressive is that I trust USAA.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

This is exactly the case for us as well. USAA is by far the easiest company to deal with of all companies that we pay for services from. We have our vehicle and home insurance through them and our boat insurance through Progressive via them. We also have a credit card as well as a HELOC through them. If you are in the military or ever have been, you're eligible. It used to be that you had to be an officer, but they've gotten rid of that restriction.

Regarding Progressive, I've been able to increase my agreed upon value based on the value of our new Tohatsu engine, as well as some racing sails I didn't understand the value of when we first purchased it. They're very easy to work with, but like others have said, haven't ever made a claim, so we don't know how that side works. Our marina requires half a million in insurance, and that was easy to do. I think our premium is $320/year with the towing rider.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 10/22/2009 : 12:51:52

We have an agreed value policy with BoatUS. They have always been very responsive with us and the agreed upon value is very fair. Plus I Like some of their ancillary services such as towing and their magazines.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 10/22/2009 : 14:27:46

I just checked my checkbook and pay $179 per year for $26k boat value with BoatUS. I too paid for less than the current value and had no problem insuring it for more with BoatUS, about 3 years ago. This includes my dinghy and 2 motors. I am in California. I think I have a $250 deductible, maybe $500 but don't quote me. And I am an insurance agent!

Sorry to hear that policy has changed with them.
Steve A

Edited by - piseas on 10/23/2009 06:21:10

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/22/2009 : 15:32:35

Seems like nobody has yet said they arrived at an "agreed value" that was more than they paid.

EDIT: OK, Steve just said it. Apparently things have changed...

Think about it this way: Unlike a car, a boat is not essential to your livelihood or life. (Settle down!

) Insurance is for critical items (house, car, health...) that you can't afford to be without and might not be able to afford to fix or replace. Paying for a bunch of insurance (or "extended warranties") on things you can afford to be without, fix, or replace just makes you poorer and insurance companies richer. For example, carrying a collision rider for a car worth $1000 is a pretty bad bet, and buying an extended warranty on every single appliance and electronic item you buy is a loser for sure. (That's why they like to sell them so much!)

You probably can't afford a liability claim (suit), but you probably can deal with the difference between what you paid and what BoatUS will cover. It's essentially your deductible. I believe in "over-insuring" the big stuff and under-insuring (or not insuring) the little stuff.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 10/23/2009 06:34:53

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 10/23/2009 : 06:53:35

Hmmm...so it appears if you luck into a free boat, BoatUS won't insure it?

I guess only covering the purchase price discourages those who may buy a $100.00 boat, insure it for $10,000.00, after which the boat mysteriously disappears.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/23/2009 : 09:20:12

But Don... If you luck into a free boat and it's destroyed in a hurricane, what did you lose?

I'm guessing BoatUS would give you liability coverage.

Edited by - on

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1778 Posts

Response Posted - 10/23/2009 : 10:09:01

I bought a fixer-upper and, on the advise of my insurance broker, started off using my homeowners' policy for liability and max value of something like $5k for the boat, engine, etc. After the first season (when most of the work was done) I then got a proper appraisal (yea I know, should have started with one, but . . . ) and proper boat insurance with Progressive for appraised market value (I believe it is @$7k) plus contents, which includes the engine, etc. As the boat was added to the policy for my powerboat my cost for insurance is tough o calculate but both boats come in at @$350/year. Even with the Progressive policy I have kept the liability umbrella on my homeowners as well. The key document keeps coming back to having a proper survey to reference.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 10/23/2009 : 10:18:17

[quote]Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 But Don... If you luck into a free boat and it's destroyed in a hurricane, what did you lose?

The value of the boat.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 10/23/2009 : 12:43:52

Ok, I just talked to Crystal at BoatUS and she said you can insure a boat for what YOU want. The exception is if its an older boat, she didn't define, it may have a cap, meaning the maximum value they will insure it for. She would not give me specifics as I would need to complete an application. So, bottom line, they will insure a boat for the value you state, probably.
I am wondering, Cayugaboater, what year is your boat?
Steve A
PS Don, I think Dave is saying if you paid nothing for the boat, you lose nothing if its a total. Yes the boat may have a value but you did not pay for that value. So, in this case you personally lost nothing. Of course the memories are priceless!

Edited by - piseas on 10/23/2009 14:05:11

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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Response Posted - 10/23/2009 : 13:34:29

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Seems like nobody has yet said they arrived at an "agreed value" that was more than they paid.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
We have SL insured now for $5k more than we paid for it and the trailer, roughly.

Edited by - on

cayugaboater
1st Mate

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50 Posts

Response Posted - 10/23/2009 : 17:41:29

hi steve, to answer my boat is a 1989 cat 25 wing keel. They seem to admit it books values for around 9 but wont insure it for that.

Edited by - cayugaboater on 10/23/2009 18:58:10

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
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Response Posted - 10/24/2009 : 07:24:17

Cayugaboater, $9 or $10k does not seem excessive to me. I was about to submit a quote online thru BoatUS for you but at the end it said something about prosecuting me for libel if fraudulent so I chickened out as I would have to give them my email address.

Were you able to get a quote thru Progressive? They are a company I work with and are very good-A+ rated-especially with claims-at least on the auto side. I have sold many a boat policy but luckily and happily never a claim yet!

Steve A

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